The Birth of Jesus 2

I see you too have been liberated of the mind control that plagues this planet. Right on.

Atheism FTW!!!

Bout time the "A" team gets back together.

Heading toward atheism? Ok that has to be one of the stupidest comments I've read in a while on here. It sounds to me like you don't have a clue about the Bible or religion. No reason to believe the stories in the Bible? You don't know what you are talking about.

Free thought??? Sounds like you aren't practicing what you preach (pardon the pun). A silly belief in atheism is considered free thought? Quite the contrary. Stupid atheistic thinking is what is poisioning rational thought processes and it is far from free thought. You people are locked into oneway of thinking. It is the living of insanity.

Sit back and ask someone else to read what you just wrote, and don't tell them it was you that wrote it.

Then we will see who is insane.

You don't have to fall for the lies anymore.

he has a point. From what I've seen of those "freethinker" websites, they're locked into a certain line of thinking, which isn't free. Maybe it is codeword for freethinking from religion. But is that free?

How is it slavish? Its not like we go killing those who want to think differently or anything. You all (theists) have done perfectly fine in that area for 2000 +/- years, wouldn't wanna mess up that record--Every day that goes by is just another notch under the belt of religion.

What exactly locks you into a thought process? I can think of a few examples, The Bible, Quran, Talmud....just name some of the first.

Seriously though, you really can't see it?

those who follow the Bible. Think of it as an instruction manual for life. Now you can stumble in the dark all your life, keep falling into the same hole that you know is there, or recognize that hey, maybe the Creator of the universe might have a better plan for us rather than stumbling around in the dark, pretending to know where we are going. Of course you can still stumble and fall with an instruction manual but there's even direction and advice when you do stumble and fall.

Contrast this with those "freethinking" websites. It's mislabeled. Read what they have posted on them and it isn't freethinking at all.

That's a telling opinon you have on the Bible. Anyone that has actually spent some time reading the Bible will immediately know that such a statement is nothing more than an empty soundbite.

You say that the "cure" for this supposed poison is freethought. When in actuality, the cure man needs in order to prevent someone from being washed around in the ocean like a ship without a rudder or some sort of guidance, is the eaching of scripture.

But instead of sound doctrine and teaching, you would rather put stock in "freethought". Freethought is a misnomer. A careful glance at what "freethinking" by searching on the internet, it appears that those freethinkers are simply stuck into one line of thinking - ignore talk about the spiritual side.

Sharks out here. Wait aren't you the shark? Telling everyone in the world what is right, wrong, divine, spiritual...? Isn't that you?

I'm not washing around anything, I'm living life, the way it was meant to be, completely free...

Metaphors only go so far and sometimes like here, they make you sound like..... well like you sounded just there. We don't want to ignore spiritual thought or talk. Just to take away the right some people find in belief. I said more to the point in the other response.

You obviously missed the point of that video. It wasn't a direct attack at you or any religion in particular. It's an attack on the idea that because a GOD said so, you can kill another person. Thats where the attack was directed. Of course by extension it requires us to disprove certain things.

L8r G8r,

jw

No I'm not the truth detective, thought police, or the know it all of everything that is right. Even if I was, you can't really tell anyone what is right and wrong anyway. We're all like children, if you tell someone not to do something, what do they do? Do it anyway.

And I know all metaphors fall apart at some point. The one I used was something form scripture that if we don't have something to go by, we can be tossed around like a ship without a rudder. That's all.

....of reality.

It is still a fictional literary work of art. I really admire its abilities thus far. Just a few, GOD this and GOD said that's, and you are all devout.

wouldn't use a book of opinions to search for ancient remains of lost cities. Matthew Mauray found that God's references to paths of the sea were more than just "opinion".

I know you atheists really want the Bible to be all fairytales but it isn't. Oh wait a minute... I forgot. Atheism isn't a religion. So you really don't care one way or the other about the Bible or God.

(yeah, right)

We don't care one way or the other about GOD or the Bible, however when your beliefs somehow give a divine authority over the next person, justify an action that would harm anyone, or push your beliefs onto children who have no idea or frame of reference as to what is, isn't, or may be truth, we start to care.

those "beliefs" pushed onto our children in the public schools? That's one reason why homeschooling is on the rise. Because of some of the garbage they are pushing in the school systems.

But I'm not saying my beliefs give divine authority over the next person. The thing about Christianity is that we're all the same. In fact, those who humble themselves are exhalted, and those who are exhalted are humbled. Now I know there are those "holier than thou" types and I' hope I'm not coming across that way, but even those people end up getting humbled sooner or later.

Thats the point of research. To explore every possibility. Now use your Bible to find the ark, cross, holy grail, etc. etc.

the Bible to find lost cities, ruins, etc... and it is accurate. Now I know about the ark and some have even claimed to have found remains of it. Who knows. The cross? Not sure what you mean there. My point was about archaeologists using scripture as a reference to find lost civilizations and there's nothing wrong with that.

Evolution is a fact? Did you ride the short bus to school? How the hell can somebody actually believe that man came from prehistoric goo?

Yes. No. By researching the facts. You should try it.

It's a "fact" we came from "prehistoric goo". The only fact regarding evolutionism is that it is devoid of any facts.

regarding the Bible is the offering plate. Oh and the "live this way not that way; cause we know everything that is and is to be. It is foretold in prophecy that people would not like to be told how to live, so we must make them see with an iron fist"

Only recently has religion begun to sensor itself and take certain things out of the Bible. "this isn't appealing to others so lets just omit that part and rewrite it in an attempt to get others to follow OUR version of the truth."

Pathetic.

Changing the story as you go....not very original, or is it. I think their the first to start doing that aren't they? Way back when, right?

(I wasn't talking about MY comments being tacky...)

>>...not to mention that your garbled digestion and regurgitation of what I wrote

>>couldn't be further exaggerated. Kudos on that.
>>
>>"Its all about you and only you, there is nothing else."

I checked myself to see if maybe I got your quote wrong since you say I garbled it and

regurgitated it. So here is an actual cut & paste from the last line of your quote:

"now, not up in the stars or even in a church. Its about you and only you. There is

nothing else."

Now, compare that with the above. Oops. I threw in the word "all". Wow that really

changed what your original statement said. (??) I think you're gagging on a gnat

here.

>>Your the horse here.
>>But like the automobile has done to the horse, The proof of Evolution will do the

>>same to religion.
>>
>>Evolution IS Fact.

The ONLY "fact" of evolution is the "missing link" is indeed missing. That's really

the only "fact" there is regarding evolution.

>>Please observe:
>>
>>Your sitting in front of a computer. So your saying that it was always this way?

>>That computers always existed? Please, you think one day someone woke up and said, I

>>think I'll build a computer? No they didn't. We have evolved, drastically. From

>>witless misunderstandings of how the world came to be;(meaning the personification

>>and divination of the stars and sun in order to explain our existence,) to the fully

>>capable space-faring beings we are now. There is your proof of evolution, if at

>>least a piece of it.

The computer, even though it is very complex, isn't even REMOTELY in the same league

as the human body, for example. Or even a bacterial flagella. Scientists once

thought a simple flagella was elementary but now we've learned that it is extremely

complex and only further complicates the notion that such a thing simply "evolved"

over time.

Back to the computer though. Your analogy is flawed because a computer always had a

designer from the get-go. Alleged evolution never had such a luxury. We are to

believe that evolution happened unaided for supposedly billions of years without any

external control. Computer programs are generally done from top-down logic. You

start out with an idea for the program and then you write the program. Evolution is

bottom-up. It doesn't know where its going but it supposedly added new features here

and there and then we end up with such complexities in living things that we to this

day don't fully understand.

>>Atheism is not a religion, and I am an atheist. GOD DOES NOT EXIST and you can't

>>prove that IT does. Regardless of anyone's opinion.

Atheism is dealing with the existence or nonexistence of God. Atheism is a belief

that God doesn't exist. Nevermind such a statement a simple as "God doesn't exist" is

foolish. It's like saying your mother doesn't exist, or your father doesn't exist.

Well, how did you get here? It is as flawed as saying that "my brother is an only

child". It is a statement that is self cancelling. Again God's existence isn't

dependent on someones opinion. The arrogant statement "GOD DOES NOT EXIST" doesn't

leave room for examination, speculation, etc... That is the equivalent of plugging

your ears and saying "lalala I can't hear you lalalala". But since an atheist can

only BELIEVE there is no God, that puts atheism in the religion category.

>>It's not working? (Here your horse.) Um, then why this discussion? Religion was and

>>is a form of control, I mean, look at what it has done to you. Granted, not many

>>people are buying into religion now-a-days. But that is a good thing.

Here your horse? Not sure what that means. The whole "religion is a form of control"

is simply an overused worn out cliche regurgitated from an atheist website. Maybe you

need to focus on something specific. Just saying religion in general is control, what

is an example? I just picture some evil preacher saying "you WILL feed the hungry...

you WILL take care of the sick, you WILL take care of the widowed..." with a

hypmotizing stare at his audience. It's just ridiculous.

"Look what it has done to you"? What's that supposed to mean? And you say not many

are "buying into it" but that is a good thing. Well, it's actually written in

scripture, in the last days there will be a falling away from sound doctrine. People

will be easily deceived following "every wind of doctrine". Your obsrevation may

actually be a validation of end times prophecy. Ok if you're going to try and

discredit the Bible, at least study up on prophecy so you don't end up unwittingly

validating it.

>>You claim everything I say is a contradiction, that I contradict myself. Nothing I

>>have said is contradictory. Definitive, but not contradictory. Maybe an overzealous,

>>garbled exaggeration of my claim on how you can't help someone else unless your

>>capable of it. It's like asking a man with broken leg to carry someone on his back.

>>He can try to help, but in the end he'll just make matters worse for him and others

>>around him.

On one hand you say "it's about you and only you. There is nothing else" (Did I get

it right that time?) but then do a 180 and mention "basic moral values" etc... That's

a contradiction.


>>Very clever choice of words here, Religious error? I think you mean religion.

No. The problem is religious error. Not religion. (Well there is a problem with

atheist religion - that's why you shouldn't broad-brush everything). For example,

anyone can go out and blow up a building and say God told them to do it. BUT - could

they give me a passage in scripture that authorizes a supposed believer in God to go

blow up a building and kill a bunch of people? Nope. We are warned in scripture not

to "wrest" in the scriptures. We can't build a doctrine on one verse for example.

That's wrong. We're told it is wrong. But people do it. People error doing so.

That's religious error. That's not a problem with religion. Operator error.


>>You couldn't be further from the truth on that one. Nine years ago the atheist

>>community consisted of about 5% of the worlds population, the rest were and still

>>are, stuck in the "My GOD is better than yours" stage. Pol Pot, Stalin, Mao, etc...

>>Contrast this with the Inquisition. The atrocities perpetrated were because of a

Again that's religious error. We're told in scripture for example, not to have

anything to do with sorcerers, witchcraft, etc... We aren't authorized in New

Testament to burn them at the stake.

>>doctrine held by the church, and the thoughts/actions of those deemed to be

>>heretical. Christianity can be blamed in this instance, while in the examples

>>suggested above cannot.

Again - no, that's not Christianity. That's religious error. Christianity means to

be like Christ, or to follow Christ. Did Christ burn witches at the stake? No. Are

we supposed to? No.

>>I guess you can say my main issue is Dogma. Do not question the leader, submit

>>blindly, ethics are what the authority says they are, or else. There is no external

>>moral benchmark.

The Bible actually says, like I've said before to "prove all things and hold fast to

that which is good", "test the spirits", "out of the mouths of two or three witnesses,

let every word be established", etc... Christ is the benchmark. Why would you be

concerned with a benchmark anyway? To be consistent with your belief that God doesn't

exist, then it seems like you would say there is no benchmark, or there shouldn't be a

benchmark. Why have a benchmark?

>>I really like the hokey man made fairy tales part, Considering our late friend

>>Carlin's opinion. Talk about contradiction.

I was talking about the belief in evolutionism as a hokey man-made fairytale. It's

even been coined the "adult fairytale".

>>Yes we were an accident. I know its hard for someone like you to accept, seeing as

>>how its all about "us" now right? We are the only life in the cosmos and if anything

No we aren't an accident. We can study living things, the universe, physical laws,

etc... and observe that we are not an accident. To say we are simply an accident goes

against scientific observation.

>>had been just a bit off, we'd parish. You make me laugh.

It's true. If the earths axis were only a few degrees one way or another, we would

either burn up or freeze. It wouldn't sustain life. Everything is carefully

balanced. I'm not sure why this makes you laugh, but it's true. It's not something

I'm making up.

>>We'll in taking an overall look at my beliefs and yours, I see we do agree on one

>>thing, as lucid as it may seem. We both agree that ALL LIFE came from one source. I

>>do believe that all life is related, and that means even you and your pet porcupine.

If God created all living things, then I guess you could say they are related. I

believe God created, but you think it's all an accident.

>>A couple of side notes:
>>1) Frogs don't come from rocks (having seen you comment on something I didn't say

>>shows me the kind of person you are.)
>>2)Comparing GOD to Gravity? I don't think you can leap any further.
>>3) It's not I ME MY attitude. Its me first you second. It's the same method behind

>>why they tell you to put YOUR oxygen mask on first and then your child when in an

>>aircraft emergency.

Frogs from rocks... What was the context on that? I know in the Victorian era, it

was believed that tadpoles were "generated" from pebbles at the bottom of a stream and

mosquitoes were actually "generated" from stagnate water. This may be the actual inspiration for the belief in evolution. Maybe that's what I was talking about.

God to gravity... I think the context of that was this - God's existence isn't dependent on ones belief. The example I gave was that you could claim gravity doesn't exist, but if you jump off a building, you still go splat. Is that it?

"Me first, you second". Sounds like "I ME MY" to me. It's George Castanza pushing children and elderly out of the way when someone says the building is on fire.

r u serious? now that is a waist of space. No but you needs to see my posts twice.

I typed my response in notepad instead of using this comment "hole" thing on Metacafe. For some reason, when I pasted it back, it became double spaced. I didn't like it either, but there isn't any way to change it.

... your entire view on what I said and your obsession with the last line of my leading post. I've never seen anyone take text so literally, but I expect nothing less from someone who reads and believes the Bible. I've already explained that caring about yourself is key to being able to care for others, and the I, ME, MY attitude is subject to circumstance; "I" want to help, its "MY" family that "I" care about, these people need "ME."

Just like I knew you would, you did it again. Another garbled reiteration and misinterpretation of what I said.

The computer.
Here is a machine that was developed by humans. Granted, its not as complex as millions of years of evolution, but even so, the human brain is responsible for it. The analogy was evolution on a 50yr platform through the human development of computers. My analogy isn't flawed, its your misinterpretation and inability to make the connection. Now take into consideration that the mainstream computer has only been around for about 35-45 years. Tack 6 zero's on the end of those numbers and you have evolution, (at least a part of it.) Also, you do not take many things into consideration. You believe that there are no accidents? If we follow your logic then every thing is already planned out for us? So we're just a big experiment? Yes the computer had a designer, a human with a brain, but you can forget how he got it or how he gained the knowledge to do so. Unaided, how can you even say that, wait, I forget who I'm talking to. Evolution has had many events that have taken place in order for life on this planet to exist. You say that GOD put the planet on its axis,(meaning you think it was always on an angular axis specifically to ensure our survival), again please omit the fact that a collision with another planetary body could be the cause. I could go on and on with examples of things that happened during the EVOLUTION of our planet. Radiation from the sun, asteroids, etc... You think these factors, along with countless others, had nothing to do with the development of our planet? If so you are mistaken.


Your take on Atheism is so wrong I don't even want to get into it. It's not a religion, look it up. There is a subtle but important difference between "believing there is no God", and "not believing there is a God". The first is a belief, the second is a lack of that belief. I don't know any atheists who "believe" God (take your pick, there are plenty) does not exist. All the atheists I know simply do not believe God does exist.

There is a big difference between positively believing that a thing does not exist, and simply lacking belief in it's existence. In many cases, atheists will say "That God does not exist", not because they choose to do so, but because, from the description of the God, it cannot exist due to contradictory attributes. In the same way that a square circle cannot (and therefore does not) exist, a God defined as (for example) all-knowing, yet cannot see into the future, cannot and does not exist because the definition is self-contradictory. If you describe your God with self-contradicting attributes which make it logically impossible, then I may safely say that such a thing does not exist as described. This is not faith or religion - this is reason.

You still have not proven that GOD does exist. I knew my mother, shes 6ft in the ground less than 5 miles from my home. If I wanted to I can go see her anytime, for you to say she didn't exist is a true contradiction, unlike, "GOD does not exist." You are being absolutely absurd. It is not an arrogant statement to everyone, only you and those like you. Regardless of your opinion or mine, "GOD does not exist." That statement is the reason you can't prove that God does.

The mire concept of religion is the problem, imagine for one second that during your Sunday mass that instead of sitting on your @$$ the whole time praying to something that does not exist, you actually go out and do something for that hour, if every one that worships on Sundays did that,(as said before,) there would be 1000x over more help for your widowed, elderly, sick, etc...etc..... the bottom line is religion is the problem. ALL RELIGION(s).

Prophecy? Haha! A far fetched notion that some one 'way back when' predicted the future. I think the Council of Nicaea covered all of their bases nothing more. It took 325 years for them to realize that slowly but surely no one was buying into their religion, so what did he do, he rounded up all of the Christian believers and decided write out the "scripture" of their faith. Please make sure your up to date on the definition of the word scripture.

The bottom line is, you are not immortal, so when ever it was that you first read the Bible simply means that you read that version of it. I guarantee it has been altered to adapt to the times and benefit the self perpetuating system that it is.

Contradiction?..... here we go again.....
So your telling me that I can't care about myself and even mention Basic Moral Values with out being contradictive? If anything I figure that you would understand a contradiction, i.e. GOD loves you but will send you to hell to burn forever.

Religious error is a hokey man made phrase, by you. I know of a few faiths (of the many there are and yet you seem to think that yours is right) that can show you a passage in their holy books which could justify such an act of terrorism. Warned huh? So its do what I say but only part of the time now? That's a Contradiction. Then its Operator error? Are you just making sh!t up as you go along or what?

Your wrong, it goes against YOUR scientific observation, not a true scientific one.

Gravity is something that every thing can experience, GOD is not. So a frog to a rock is pretty accurate in contrast. Just because one statement is true does not mean the other is, regardless of the scale of the effect or context. This is basic English so make a better comparison next time. ( And I know there will be...)

Its me first you second, not Seinfeld. He ran out of the building because that's how the "Character" is supposed to be. Again with a huge misinterpretation. I'm beginning to see that your incapable of making reasonable comparisons or interpretations. This would explain why someone with a decent set of reasoning skills would be easily mislead into religion.

Here is a small yet effect view on how atheism is in no way a religion.


Religion to Atheism attribute comparison
All of these are present in Religion, All of these are also not present in Atheism.



Belief in God(s)
Prayer
Churches / Temples
Holy Book / Scripture
Priests / religious leaders
Belief in the supernatural (including angels / devils)
Miracles
Afterlife
Holy wars
Heaven / Hell
Lifestyle restrictions (dress, diet, marriage etc. etc.)
Belief without evidence (faith as a virtue)
Belief despite conflicting evidence
Supernatural origins of universe and / or humans
Murderous fundamentalist extremists
The soul
Regular ceremonies / acts of worship
Sin
Blasphemy
We are God's chosen people

So as you can see Atheism is not, in any way, a Religion.

I'm standing where your about to shoot? You better hope you finish the job...For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you; If I die, you are forgiven."

So don't miss your target.

This time I used Microsoft Word. Hopefully it won't come out double spaced again. Your comments are in parenthesis. My response is under your comment.

=================

(... your entire view on what I said and your obsession with the last line of my leading post. I've never seen anyone take text so literally, but I expect nothing less from someone who reads and believes the Bible.)

Logical fallacy and bigoted statement. Since I read and believe what the Bible says, I’m not holding up to your high expectations. But you continue anyway.

( I've already explained that caring about yourself is key to being able to care for others, and the I, ME, MY attitude is subject to circumstance; "I" want to help, its "MY" family that "I" care about, these people need "ME."

Just like I knew you would, you did it again. Another garbled reiteration and misinterpretation of what I said.)

I checked to make sure it wasn’t something I may have missed. And I do make mistakes, unlike you. So I took the quote from YOUR text and copied and pasted it so I wouldn’t get it wrong. Here’s the quote from YOUR text: “now, not up in the stars or even in a church. Its about you and only you. There is nothing else."
The whole thing about “Its [sic] about you and only you” was my point. Who cares about anybody else. That’s not garbled, misconstrued, or screwed up by us Bible-believing illiterate dumb people, that’s what you said. And I responded.

Obviously you do have to take care of yourself and that is understood. Nobody is questioning that. But if you just make a statement like you made, obviously it looks a little self-centered and uncaring.

(The computer.
Here is a machine that was developed by humans. Granted, its not as complex as millions of years of evolution, but even so, the human brain is responsible for )

Those “millions of years of evolution” couldn’t have come up with anything even remotely similar. It is so ironic or curious, that you can have so much trouble with a possibility that there is a God and He created everything, but you can accept without question that everything we know and even what we don’t know is simply the result of “millions of years of evolution”. I really admire your faith on those millions of years. You’ve simply exchanged God the Creator for this imaginary god of time to “create” life. Given “millions of years” anything can happen.

(it. The analogy was evolution on a 50yr platform through the human development of computers. My analogy isn't flawed, its your misinterpretation and inability to make the connection. Now take into consideration that the mainstream computer has only been around for about 35-45 years. Tack 6 zero's on the end of those numbers and you have evolution, (at least a part of it.) Also, )

Tack on 6 more zeros. What’s the difference? You’re still paying homage to this imaginary god of time that can “create” everything. You think that even a computer could have evolved? It makes just as much sense. Actually I would even say it would be EASIER for a computer to have evolved over those billions and billions of years than any life form. Simply because our computers – as complex as they are, are not even an honest comparison to even the simplest of life forms. Even the simplest of life forms cannot be created by the brightest scientists in the world even with carefully controlled conditions, which isn’t fair to “evolution” because evolution doesn’t have carefully controlled conditions nor does it have the advantage of having the parts already gathered in one place. Evolution supposedly had to do without those advantages.

(you do not take many things into consideration. You believe that there are no accidents? If we follow your logic then every thing is already planned out for us?)

I don’t think I ever said there were no accidents. I believe my point was that life isn’t an “accident”. Whave no empirical data or examples, or proof that any kind of accident can generate/create anything living.

(So we're just a big experiment? Yes the computer had a designer, a human with a brain, but you can forget how he got it or how he gained the knowledge to do so. Unaided, how can you even say that, wait, I forget who I'm talking to. Evolution has had many events that have taken place in order for life on this)

That’s another good point – evolution is supposedly unaided but yet it has been able to generate or “create” everything we know of today and even the things yet to be discovered. Computers on the other hand had a designer. Top down thinking, whereas evolution would have to be bottom-up thinking (even though it doesn’t really “think” or have any intuition.)

(planet to exist. You say that GOD put the planet on its axis,(meaning you think it was always on an angular axis specifically to ensure our survival), again please omit the fact that a collision with another planetary body could be the cause. I could go on and on with examples of things that happened during the EVOLUTION of our planet. Radiation from the sun, asteroids, etc... You think these factors, along with countless others, had nothing to do with the development of our planet? If so you are mistaken.)

It’s a “statistical monstrosity” to think that all these accidents just happened to make all the right changes and do all the right things at the right time to sustain life. That’s why a lot of people come to know their Creator just by observing life. The Bible says creation is a testimony to God and yet some still hold tight to the belief that it’s all a cosmic accident.

(Your take on Atheism is so wrong I don't even want to get into it. It's not a religion, look it up. There is a subtle but important difference between "believing there is no God", and "not believing there is a God". The first is a belief, the second is a lack of that belief. I don't know any atheists who "believe" God (take your pick, there are plenty) does not exist. All the atheists I know simply do not believe God does exist.))

Why do you capitalize “atheism”? And what I’m saying isn’t “my take” on atheism, it’s simply boiling down what it is. An atheist can only – ONLY believe there isn’t a God. That is their belief. A religion is a belief. What is a belief? You can pretend that atheism is this high and mighty level of thinking that somehow excludes itself from any criticism or definition, but it doesn’t. That’s why atheism is simply a belief that God doesn’t exist. A lack of belief about God and a belief that God doesn’t exist is the same thing. Everybody believes in something. It is also impossible to live without faith of some sort.

(There is a big difference between positively believing that a thing does not exist, and simply lacking belief in it's existence. In many cases, atheists will say "That God does not exist", not because they choose to do so, but because, from the description of the God, it cannot exist due to contradictory attributes. In the same)

What you have to be able to accept, and I know that it is hard for atheists, is that there are things that can exist outside of your awareness. You think because you can’t “figure it out” or wrap your brain around it, it isn’t true. The fact is that we will not fully understand God right now. Our minds can’t comprehend everything about God. That doesn’t mean God doesn’t exist because we can’t understand.

“God cannot exist due to contradictory attributes” – we have the tail wagging the dog here. There are things I don’t understand. Do I go around arrogantly saying quantum physics doesn’t exist because I don’t understand it or it may have contradictory attributes given my level of understanding on the subject?

(way that a square circle cannot (and therefore does not) exist, a God defined as (for example) all-knowing, yet cannot see into the future, cannot and does not exist because the definition is self-contradictory. If you describe your God with )

I haven’t said God can’t see into the future. God exists outside of the realm of time. God isn’t limited by time. We always hear the stereotypical view of God from atheists or mockers that say God is this old feeble man up in the sky. Well no, for one thing God exists outside of the realm of time. We are confined by time and can’t escape it.

(self-contradicting attributes which make it logically impossible, then I may safely say that such a thing does not exist as described. This is not faith or religion - this is reason.)

As God isn’t constrained by time, God isn’t also constrained by our feeble knowledge of logic. Also, logically impossible by whose standards? And yes that is faith and religion.

What you are describing isn’t reason either. Reason would ALWAYS allow for the possibility that you might be wrong - that there may be other things or data that exists outside of your realm of comprehension. That is why in my opinion that agnosticism is more reasonable that atheism. Agnostics admit they don’t know if God exists or not. They don’t exclude the possibility that God does exist. They simply don’t know yet. That leaves one open for more input, more learning, etc. whereas atheism arrogantly says God doesn’t exist. Peroid. End of discussion.

(You still have not proven that GOD does exist. I knew my mother, shes 6ft in the ground less than 5 miles from my home. If I wanted to I can go see her anytime, for you to say she didn't exist is a true contradiction, unlike, "GOD does not exist." You are being absolutely absurd. It is not an arrogant statement to everyone, only you and those like you. Regardless of your opinion or mine, "GOD does not exist." That statement is the reason you can't prove that God does.)

It’s been said that an atheist can’t find God for the same reason a thief can’t find a policeman. You have to be willing to look, or observe. You can observe God’s creation. Also if you are willing to try Biblical principles, you can prove it to yourself. But if you’re waiting for God to jump through your hoops, it isn’t going to happen. You have to first be willing to seek. We are promised that those who seek do find.

(The mire concept of religion is the problem, imagine for one second that during your Sunday mass that instead of sitting on your @$$ the whole time praying to something that does not exist, you actually go out and do something for that )

Praying to something that doesn’t exist would be a problem. It would be questionable, at the least. But I don’t think that’s what is going on in church on Sunday. Maybe for some, but for the most part, going to church isn’t merely to go pray to something that doesn’t exist.

(hour, if every one that worships on Sundays did that,(as said before,) there would be 1000x over more help for your widowed, elderly, sick, etc...etc..... the bottom line is religion is the problem. ALL RELIGION(s).)

Well if you are going to be that way, we’re both guilty because you, as well as I have spent time butting heads on a dialogue here while WE could have been doing something else. But seriously, worship is more than sitting on your butt praying, worship also involves fellowship, which is something beneficial to everyone, prayer for the sick, etc. After the service we can also get our “marching orders” so to speak, learning who we need to visit, help for, etc… You are quick to dismiss going to church as one thing but I don’t think you grasp the full concept of church. It’s more than sitting on your butt.

(Prophecy? Haha! A far fetched notion that some one 'way back when' predicted the future. I think the Council of Nicaea covered all of their bases nothing more. It took 325 years for them to realize that slowly but surely no one was buying into their religion, so what did he do, he rounded up all of the Christian believers and decided write out the "scripture" of their faith. Please make sure your up to date on the definition of the word scripture.)

Not any kind of far fetched notion of mine, nor my opinion. I’m not going to go into it here, but fire up Al Gore’s invention called the internet and research Bible prophecy if you’re up to it (hence – the SEEKING part). Contrast Bible prophecy with your line of reasoning that evolution has generated/created everything simply by time – billions upon billions of years.

(The bottom line is, you are not immortal, so when ever it was that you first read the Bible simply means that you read that version of it. I guarantee it has been altered to adapt to the times and benefit the self perpetuating system that it is. )

It isn’t that easy. That’s a common misconception that the Bible has been altered but what people don’t realize is that the scribes when they translated the Bible into different languages it is extremely hard to work in alterations. How could it be physically possible to alter every translation all over the world?

(Contradiction?..... here we go again.....
So your telling me that I can't care about myself and even mention Basic Moral Values with out being contradictive? If anything I figure that you would understand a contradiction, i.e. GOD loves you but will send you to hell to burn forever.)

To be true to the “it’s all about you” line of thinking, to show compassion or care about anything or anyone else is a contradiction. Why bother? And God doesn’t “send you to hell” contrary to what those atheist websites vomit into cyberspace. We read in scripture that it isn’t God’s will that any should perish, but all come to eternal life.

(Religious error is a hokey man made phrase, by you. I know of a few faiths (of the many there are and yet you seem to think that yours is right) that can show you a passage in their holy books which could justify such an act of terrorism.)

So what you are saying is it would be impossible for someone to read the Bible and arrive at an erroneous conclusion about something?

(Warned huh? So its do what I say but only part of the time now? That's a Contradiction. Then its Operator error? Are you just making sh!t up as you go along or what?)

No I’m not just making things up. Are you?

(Your wrong, it goes against YOUR scientific observation, not a true scientific one. Gravity is something that every thing can experience, GOD is not. So a frog to a)

No anyone can believe in God and experience God.

( rock is pretty accurate in contrast. Just because one statement is true does not mean the other is, regardless of the scale of the effect or context. This is basic English so make a better comparison next time. ( And I know there will be...)

Its me first you second, not Seinfeld. He ran out of the building because that's how the "Character" is supposed to be. Again with a huge misinterpretation. I'm beginning to see that your incapable of making reasonable comparisons or interpretations. This would explain why someone with a decent set of reasoning skills would be easily mislead into religion.)

That’s how the character is supposed to be? The way George (the character, of course) handled the fire in the building was the same way someone would handle it with the “I me my” attitude on life.

(Here is a small yet effect view on how atheism is in no way a religion.


Religion to Atheism attribute comparison
All of these are present in Religion, All of these are also not present in Atheism.



Belief in God(s))

“God(s)? I’m not talking about belief in gods or worshiping false gods, etc… I’m talking about God, the Creator, the Alpha and Omega, etc… not “gods”. Maybe that’s the problem, we’re not even talking about the same thing.

(Prayer
Churches / Temples
Holy Book / Scripture
Priests / religious leaders
Belief in the supernatural (including angels / devils)
Miracles
Afterlife
Holy wars
Heaven / Hell
Lifestyle restrictions (dress, diet, marriage etc. etc.)
Belief without evidence (faith as a virtue)
Belief despite conflicting evidence
Supernatural origins of universe and / or humans
Murderous fundamentalist extremists
The soul
Regular ceremonies / acts of worship
Sin
Blasphemy
We are God's chosen people

So as you can see Atheism is not, in any way, a Religion.)

The reason why atheism is a religion is because it is dealing with God. It is a belief that God doesn’t exist. You may not be aware that some sects of atheism has their own belief systems, creeds, etc… But even if they don’t it is still dealing with God.

Also, you, an atheist, responded on a video about Jesus. If you are confident in your beliefs, why did you feel it necessary to come in and comment about something you supposedly don’t believe in? If you truly believe God doesn’t exist, what’s the point in entering a discussion about God? That’s why most atheists seem to be the most religious people there are.

(I'm standing where your about to shoot? You better hope you finish the job...For a wounded man shall say to his assailant, "If I live, I will kill you; If I die, you are forgiven."

So don't miss your target.)

I’m guessing you are missing the point here. You’re on a comment section of a video about Jesus saying God doesn’t exist. You can’t object to someone questioning or commenting about your comments that God doesn’t exist, when the video doesn’t even have anything to do with atheism. For example, if I look for something about atheism and make a comment that atheism is unreasonable or illogical, I can’t complain when someone questions why I would even make such a statement.

...The FACT that YOU think YOUR GOD is the ONE TRUE GOD is proof that there isn't a GOD. You could be completely wrong about GOD as you see it. Its nice of you to be so uplifting (accusing me of not making mistakes) but to say so is simply wrong. I've already said that humans are flawed. So I think that would include you and I.

My words are subject to interpretation. So you see what you want to see. It is nice to be admired, and your admiration is greatly appreciated, however I do not believe in this "GOD of time" you have creatively named. Similarly, the GOD(s) that humans have created. Why, in your view on anything, does there have to be an all powerful entity? There are several (as we all know) GOD(s). Answer me this, why is your GOD the right one? You've spent all this time telling me that Atheism is wrong, wheres your proof? You still have not proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that GOD does exist.

As far as evolution goes, scientist don't have an experiment running that has an end date of "Billions of years." So to say that scientists have not "created" is completely accurate. They haven't had the time, and possibly never will.

Would you describe the size of the Universe in all of its endlessness as a monstrosity? Yet here we are. A statistical example of possibility. Now I never said Atheism was excluded from criticism, in fact, its expected. It may be impossible for you to live without faith in a higher power, it is not for me.

Why is capitalization an issue? Nit picking is a stinky sign of desperation.

Believing there is and not believing there is......sounds like two different things to me. I know there are things that can exist outside our awareness, but I don't think you do. If YOU did then you would be agnostic, because in the end you just wouldn't know. What is so hard to understand about having contradictory attributes? It's not like its Quantum Physics or anything. You didn't have to say that your GOD can see into the future. Christianity did. Reason, reasoning, and being reasonable are different things. An Atheist can't find GOD because IT does not exist. Now you can observe creation, I'll give you that, I have a daughter. But weather or not it is "GOD," is subject to opinion.

Promised? By who?

We are both guilty? Then you are doubly so. Your worship and your proof of the nonexistence of GOD through your failed reasoning of your belief structure. I may be guilty of not helping individuals with the time I've spent on these posts, but by the same token I see these posts as an attempt to rid the world of religion, one person at a time regardless of the time it takes. All it takes is one person, then their families and so on and so on. Pretty much the same thing that Christianity did 2000 years ago. Only they did it with a divine right supposedly, and you call atheists arrogant.

Your words - "It isn’t that easy. That’s a common misconception that the Bible has been altered but what people don’t realize is that the scribes when they translated the Bible into different languages it is extremely hard to work in alterations. How could it be physically possible to alter every translation all over the world?"

In order for a Bible to be translated I guarantee it is looked over by a committee before it is put into mass print. So who runs the committee? I would think the people in charge of that particular religion......this is common sense. Talk about willfully ignorant. You have head, USE IT.

And you mean to be "slavish" to the "its all about you" not "true". Maybe your so used to being a slave that you can't see past the written word. Find something else because that horse has been turned into glue already.

Websites didn't vomit sh!t, it was your holy book dumb@$$.

Your words - "So what you are saying is it would be impossible for someone to read the Bible and arrive at an erroneous conclusion about something?"

OMG!!! it is very possible. I.E. - your conclusion on creation.

Back to our frog-rock....let me clarify, Gravity is a force that exists, and so, everything must experience it. Plain and simple. GOD is not.

Maybe someone with and I,ME,MY attitude like George would. Good thing I'm nothing like him.

Creator, Alpha and Omega, God. They all go by those names. Yours is no different.

Just because Atheism deals with GOD does not make it a religion. How profound. Look it up. Stop talking out your @$$.

To be honest I'm surprised you have stuck in the debate this long. The video has to do with religion. So I made a comment. Not trying to be childish here but its my right and obligation to try and show every one that religions, while it has instilled the basic moral values and codes for a species, may not be entirely correct. So until someone shows up with a definitive answer to all of our problems, I think it is something better left in the past.

But seriously, your not winning anyone over by chopping my paragraphs in half and adding your two sense as a literal interruption. Write your response and post it. YOUR RESPONSE not mine.

(The FACT that YOU think YOUR GOD is the ONE TRUE GOD is proof that there isn't a GOD. You could be completely wrong about GOD as you see it. Its nice of you to be so uplifting (accusing me of not making mistakes) but to say so is simply wrong. I've already said that humans are flawed. So I think that would include you and I.)

We’re not talking about the same thing. It isn’t “my God”. It’s just God. The Creator.

(My words are subject to interpretation. So you see what you want to see. It is nice to be admired, and your admiration is greatly appreciated, however I do not believe in this "GOD of time" you have creatively named. Similarly, the GOD(s))

It is a common observation that evolutionists/neodarwinists almost always use the phrase “given enough time” or words to that effect. What they have done is inevitably exchanged the one true God to their fictitious god of time. Since they will not accept the fact that God created everything, they must come up with something else. Ironically, they simply construct their own god out of something, be it knowledge, nature, monetary things, ones self, etc.

(that humans have created. Why, in your view on anything, does there have to be an all powerful entity? There are several (as we all know) GOD(s). Answer me this, why is your GOD the right one? You've spent all this time telling me that Atheism is wrong, wheres your proof? You still have not proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that GOD does exist.)

It is written in scripture, that we shouldn’t have any other gods before Him. So it is obvious that there are all sorts of “gods”. Like I said in the above paragraph, people can make a god out of anything. How do you know you have the right one? How about #1 OBSERVE God’s creation, and go after the One who created everything. I think you are wanting someone to hold your hand, or something to drop in your lap, but that isn’t going to happen. You have to seek. If you seek, you will find. But you have effectively plugged your ears.

(As far as evolution goes, scientist don't have an experiment running that has an end date of "Billions of years." So to say that scientists have not "created" is completely accurate. They haven't had the time, and possibly never will.)

That’s convenient.

(Would you describe the size of the Universe in all of its endlessness as a monstrosity? Yet here we are. A statistical example of possibility. Now I never said Atheism was excluded from criticism, in fact, its expected. It may be impossible for you to live without faith in a higher power, it is not for me.)

The idea of everything we know and things yet to be discovered that were generated or created as random chance is a statistical monstrosity. The more we learn about the complexities of life, the harder it becomes to simply explain it all away as chance. Oh, but we can just throw in a billion more years. That seems to make it more believable – for some I guess.

It is impossible for ANYONE to live without faith. For example, you get up in the morning and pour some milk and make a bowl of corn flakes. Now are you going to examine every flake and make sure that it was made in accordance to FDA guidelines and it is safe to eat? Or will you have faith that it is ok? When you get in your car to go to work, are you going to do a 20 point test and make sure everything is working correctly or will you use some faith and believe that your brakes are going to work? Do you have faith that chair is holding you up now or are you standing up? See, it is literally impossible to live without faith in something or another.

(Why is capitalization an issue? Nit picking is a stinky sign of desperation. )

Just an interesting observation. You are adamant that atheism isn’t a religion, but somehow it needs to be capitalized. Not nit picking, just a curiosity.

(Believing there is and not believing there is......sounds like two different things to me. I know there are things that can exist outside our awareness, but I don't think you do. If YOU did then you would be agnostic, because in the end you just wouldn't know. What is so hard to understand about having contradictory)

There will be contradictions, or things we won’t understand about God right now. We need to leave room for the possibility that we might not be able to fully comprehend God at this given moment, rather than just scrap the whole thing because it is a contradiction. That’s giving up way to easily.

( attributes? It's not like its Quantum Physics or anything. You didn't have to say that your GOD can see into the future. Christianity did. Reason, reasoning, and )

That’s another tail wagging the dog scenario. Christianity didn’t create God. God isn’t a created thing.

(being reasonable are different things. An Atheist can't find GOD because IT does not exist. Now you can observe creation, I'll give you that, I have a daughter. But weather or not it is "GOD," is subject to opinion. )

An atheist can’t find God because an atheist won’t find God. And yes Creation can be subject to opinion. Some think we were deposited here by aliens. I have a belief that creation is evidence of a Creator.

(Promised? By who?)

God.

(We are both guilty? Then you are doubly so. Your worship and your proof of the nonexistence of GOD through your failed reasoning of your belief structure. I may)

I’m not praying to a nonexistent God nor have I failed at my reasoning. My reasoning leads me to believe that it is more likely that creation has a Creator rather than everything just happening by random chance over a billion years, million billion years, or whatever astronomical figure you want to use to somehow make evolutionism more believable.

(be guilty of not helping individuals with the time I've spent on these posts, but by the same token I see these posts as an attempt to rid the world of religion, one person at a time regardless of the time it takes. All it takes is one person, then )

And atheism isn’t a religion? Sounds pretty religious to me. You are going after people’s faith about something that you supposedly believe doesn’t exist. If atheism truly is set apart and has no dealings with God and it is just a cold hard fact that God doesn’t exist, then why all the trouble and arguing with believers about God?

(their families and so on and so on. Pretty much the same thing that Christianity did 2000 years ago. Only they did it with a divine right supposedly, and you call atheists arrogant.

Your words - "It isn’t that easy. That’s a common misconception that the Bible has been altered but what people don’t realize is that the scribes when they translated the Bible into different languages it is extremely hard to work in alterations. How could it be physically possible to alter every translation all over the world?"

In order for a Bible to be translated I guarantee it is looked over by a committee before it is put into mass print. So who runs the committee? I would think the people in charge of that particular religion......this is common sense. Talk about willfully ignorant. You have head, USE IT.)

The scribes would throw out the copies if they were off by one speck – one punctuation. You can’t fully grasp how careful they were to copy the sacred texts and have this scenario of some evil guy sneaking in a word or phrase here and there, then the whole thing is messed up. Well, that just doesn’t happen.

Common sense – when the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, there were some serious skeptics that thought for sure that maybe this could be a way to show how the scriptures have deteriorated over time. Well, what did we find? The ancient texts found in that cave matched what we call scripture today to the letter. Common sense would lead you to believe that well maybe they were not all screwed up over time as some would lead you to believe. Willfully ignorant – sure you can be willfully ignorant of these facts. People build a doctrine over such.

(And you mean to be "slavish" to the "its all about you" not "true". Maybe your so used to being a slave that you can't see past the written word. Find something else because that horse has been turned into glue already.

Websites didn't vomit sh!t, it was your holy book dumb@$$.)

I think this is how you ended up the last time. You start to come apart like a two dollar suitcase. In an attempt to hide such a fact, you start plugging in profanity where a coherent word or phrase could have resided. It’s a shame with bad things happen to good sentences.

Yes, websites, such as those atheistic websites regurgitate the same bilge. This bilge is vomited into cyberspace and taken as “fact” by many. I tried several times to answer one of them, just out of an experiment about the alleged error in 1Kings 7:23 about King Solomon’s brass bowl. The atheist website announces that the Bible has the value of pi as 3.0. My ears perked up because I love math. I know for a fact that the Bible doesn’t have 3.0 for pi. So I constructed a formula out of the data that was given about the dimensions of the brass bowl in scripture. I even solved for pi, pretending I didn’t know what the value should be. I plugged in my own measurements for a cubit and handbreadth and guess what? The value of pi didn’t come out to be 3.0! Go figure. Here’s what the ignorant atheist author did: he conveniently left out a dimension of the brass bowl – the thickness. Now if you leave that out, of course it is going to be wrong. But to this day that same website has the same regurgitated baloney about errors in the Bible even though I showed how it works. I even drew up the brass bowl in AutoCAD, complete with the dimensions. That is something you can’t fudge in AutoCAD. It has to be accurate. That wasn’t enough I guess.


(Your words - "So what you are saying is it would be impossible for someone to read the Bible and arrive at an erroneous conclusion about something?"

OMG!!! it is very possible. I.E. - your conclusion on creation.)

Sure – I could be {gasp} wrong about something! I’m not perfect like atheists, nor do I hold infinite knowledge about everything, seen and unseen, so I can say point blank God doesn’t exist, as atheists do.

You had a problem with “religious error” and I asked you if it was possible for someone to read the Bible and make a mistake about something.

(Back to our frog-rock....let me clarify, Gravity is a force that exists, and so, everything must experience it. Plain and simple. GOD is not.

Maybe someone with and I,ME,MY attitude like George would. Good thing I'm nothing like him.

Creator, Alpha and Omega, God. They all go by those names. Yours is no different.

Just because Atheism deals with GOD does not make it a religion. How profound. Look it up. Stop talking out your @$$.)

Oops, there goes another handle. You’re coming apart!

(To be honest I'm surprised you have stuck in the debate this long. The video has to do with religion. So I made a comment. Not trying to be childish here but its my right and obligation to try and show every one that religions, while it has instilled the basic moral values and codes for a species, may not be entirely correct. So until someone shows up with a definitive answer to all of our problems, I think it is something better left in the past. )

You can comment on anything, within reason. If you violate something the website author doesn’t like, you might get flushed from the system. It doesn’t matter to me if you make a comment about every video about Jesus on here. And I’ll respond.

(But seriously, your not winning anyone over by chopping my paragraphs in half and adding your two sense as a literal interruption. Write your response and post it. YOUR RESPONSE not mine.)

This is the methodical way I respond to lengthy debates, arguments, discussions, etc. It isn’t meant to be a literal interruption; it’s just the way I respond. Up till now, nobody has objected to it.

You are speaking about evolution as if it is the truth, when the theory of evolution is just that. A theory. Scientific speculation on how we got here. Therefore, it is not the "truth" but speculation, wild guess (or SWAG - Scienfitic Wild @$$ Guess).

Religion as a form of control... well, it ain't working. First, you're a little too general about what you are talking about. What religion? Religion can be anything. The religion of atheism, all the way to pantheism. You name it. Sure, some it, frankly, isn't true. But when you lump the Bible in there with all of it, and say it is flawed, then you have a problem.

The existence of God isn't subject to man. God is eternal, has always existed, and always will. God exists ouside of the boundaries of time. Man is bound by time. People can deny He exists, yet He does. You can deny gravity exists, and jump off a building. Guess what. You go splat anyway, regardless of your belief.

You are wasting time arguing about something you supposedly don't believe in. People attending church, helping the elderly, helping the widowed, visiting the sick, ministering to prisoners, feeding the hungry, putting others before yourself - that isn't a "waste of time".

"Its about you and only you. There is nothing else" That statement you made that you believe is true, speaks volumes.

Hello Mr. Bisquick,

So its come to following my posts has it? I have explained it to you once and I'll be happy to do it again.

Evolution is fact and when the Vatican was confronted with it those with the proof were denounced as blasphemers. Any findings that were presented were considered to be fabricated. You think GOD exists? Prove it... Anyone ever having witnessed a so called miracle, such an effect or an event manifesting considered as a work of GOD, is coincidence nothing more. I also like how when something can't be explained its so quickly referred to as an act of GOD or anything therein referenced.
What do you mean its not working? Your sitting there arguing that GOD exists and in saying so, your fighting on their behalf. A perfect example of how religion promotes confrontation, and by extension, violence. Atheism is not a religion, in fact its the exact opposite. We had to stoop to your level and label our belief so you would know where we stood.
As I have written in my last post, "If man did not exist, neither would the notion of GOD." Any time I'm contested people site scriptures and the Bible claiming that what it says is true. So if we go back to what you said during our other conversation, and I quote; " The Bible may have been penned by man but inspired by GOD." If that is true, then your belief structure is based on the assumptions and imaginations of other men 2000 years ago. Sorry but ill take my "Atheism."
I've seen many people help the elderly, sick, poor, and physically challenged and they had nothing to do with any religion. You don't have to fall for the lies to be a good person. It instilled the basic moral values that we need as a society but I don't think it is some thing this world needs anymore. I mean look what it does, i.e. (this conversational confrontation.) This is just the bottom of the scale, there are very bad things done in the name of a divine pursuit, (that means religion.)
Gravity, by the way is a forced created by the mass of our planet, its the same reason we have 365 days in the year, 24hr. days etc. etc. Even comparing GOD to gravity is like comparing a frog to a rock, its just ridiculous.
If you think for one second that the individuals helping others will be able to help the unfortunate without taking care of themselves first your mistaken. Those people have their lives back home taken care of. Their family, friends and loved ones are capable of taking care of themselves or the ones that matter to them being taken care of. So it is about YOU first. Then go and help people, IF YOU CAN!
Before you reply, try reading our other conversations so that this doesn't become a cyclic discussion.



Tell your son I said HI!!!

Ok Aunt Jemima...

>>So its come to following my posts has it? I have explained it to you once and I'll be happy to do it again.

I wasn't following you. You just happened to make the same dead horse comments on a video that I watched.

>>Evolution is fact and when the Vatican was confronted with it those with the proof

Nope, evolution isn't a "fact". First - what is evolution? Evolutionists apparently come in different "denominations". Some take evolution literally - thinking all life - EVERYTHING, evolved from one single celled organism (nevermind where that single celled organism came from???) - i.e. the pond scum theory. Then there are some denominations of evolutionism that say simply "change" is evolution. Bacteria showing immunity, etc... So what "facts" are you talking about?

If you say it is a "fact" that pineapples and porcupines share a common ancestor - well no, that's not a fact. That's somebody's belief system. Evolution as an explanation of the cause of all living things is still faced with the problem of producing a rabbit out of an empty hat as Chesterton once said.

Also - you are being contradictory. On one hand, Jesus is fake and God is fake, and everything is fake, and the only thing that matters in life is I ME MY - gimmie gimmie, who cares about you, it's all about me, and we are all products of pond scum materializing life and then all the sudden evolution is true because for Pete's sake, the Vatican thinks it is true (which isn't entirely accurate).

>>were denounced as blasphemers. Any findings that were presented were considered to be fabricated. You think GOD exists? Prove it... Anyone ever having witnessed a so called

Creation is proof of a Creator. A painting is proof of a painter. A building is proof of a builder. This isn't rocket science. Now you can deny creation (being willfully ignorant as scripture states) and make up hokey man made fairy tales that pineapples and porcupines share a common ancestor or humans and field mice are distant cousins. That's entirely up to you, but don't call it a "fact".

You can observe proof of a Creator, but you can't observe one single "fact" of evolutionism.

>>miracle, such an effect or an event manifesting considered as a work of GOD, is coincidence nothing more. I also like how when something can't be explained its so quickly referred to as an act of GOD or anything therein referenced.
What do you mean its not working? Your sitting there arguing that GOD exists and in

A very common cliche is saying religion is made up to control man. Sounds good on an atheist website, but in reality, that dog don't hunt. If it is made up to control people, it doesn't work. People still kill, destroy, etc... and if that man made religion is supposed to control everbody, well, it ain't workin'.

>>saying so, your fighting on their behalf. A perfect example of how religion promotes confrontation, and by extension, violence. Atheism is not a religion, in fact its the

Atheism is a religion simply because it is a belief that there is no God. Atheism is dealing with the existence, or nonexistence of God. A belief that God doesn't exist is still a religion, because it is a belief.

Agnosticism, on the other hand, is at least a little more honest and admits one "doesn't know" if God exists or not. That at least allows room for thought and a debate, while an atheist says point blank there is no God (even though one has yet to supply evidence that God does not exist).

>>exact opposite. We had to stoop to your level and label our belief so you would know where we stood.
As I have written in my last post, "If man did not exist, neither would the notion of GOD." Any time I'm contested people site scriptures and the Bible claiming that what it says is true. So if we go back to what you said during our other conversation, and

God exists regardless of anyones opinion on God. Gravity exists whether or not you believe in it.

>>I quote; " The Bible may have been penned by man but inspired by GOD." If that is true, then your belief structure is based on the assumptions and imaginations of other men 2000 years ago. Sorry but ill take my "Atheism."

At least step it up one notch to agnostic and leave some intellectual honesty in there. You're making inaccurate comments about Jesus and God, and evolution, etc... on a video about the birth of Jesus, but you'll stick to atheism. No, you're being contradictory. Maybe you are not confident in your beliiefs about atheism if you're making comments on a video about the birth of Jesus.

secondly, not that my entire belief system is based on the Bible, but if you must be face to face with everything before you can believe it, you'll have to throw out what we've learned from other history books as well. Anything about George Washington, etc... since the only source we have for documentation of his existence is history books, and since you were not there to see him in person, it isn't true and must be abandoned.

>>I've seen many people help the elderly, sick, poor, and physically challenged and they had nothing to do with any religion. You don't have to fall for the lies to be a good person. It instilled the basic moral values that we need as a society but I don't

What's the point? If "it is all about you and nothing else" but yet you care about the elderly, widowed, etc... you're being contradictory in your belief system. If it is truly all about you, what's with the "basic moral values"? You can't sit on the fence. If you believe it is truly all about you and nothing else, then screw everybody else. Forget basic moral values.

>>think it is some thing this world needs anymore. I mean look what it does, i.e. (this conversational confrontation.) This is just the bottom of the scale, there are very bad things done in the name of a divine pursuit, (that means religion.)

There have been bad things done in the name of religious error, true. Religious error is indeed a problem. However what has done more harm than anything put together, including religious error, is the way of thinking that you summed up in the statement "it is all about you and nothing else" - secular humanism, atheistic regimes such as Pol Pot, Stallin, Mao, etc... That I ME MY I ME MY attitude has done more harm and destruction and killed more people than anything else.

>>Gravity, by the way is a forced created by the mass of our planet, its the same reason we have 365 days in the year, 24hr. days etc. etc. Even comparing GOD to gravity is like
Interesting you being that up because look at the way the earth is. It is perfectly tilted on an axis that allows for the change in seasons. Everything is in a careful balance and that is another nail in the coffin for those who think everything happened by accident. A few degrees one way or the other and the careful balance is off and it doesn't sustain life. Oh, but we are all just a cosmic accident.


>>comparing a frog to a rock, its just ridiculous.

The thinking that a frog came from a rock is ridiculous.

>>If you think for one second that the individuals helping others will be able to help the unfortunate without taking care of themselves first your mistaken. Those people have their lives back home taken care of. Their family, friends and loved ones are capable of taking care of themselves or the ones that matter to them being taken care of. So it is about YOU first. Then go and help people, IF YOU CAN!
Before you reply, try reading our other conversations so that this doesn't become a cyclic discussion.

You're repeating much of the same things I believe, from before. So it is already cyclic. You posted the same backwards comments on a video about The Birth of Jesus.

As a humble Quaker once said "I wouldn't harm thee for the world, but thou art standing where I am about to shoot." As long as you want to make silly comments about evolutionism, and God not existing, I'll respond.

reply above.