Boeing 747 Extreme Landing.

surely this man should be banned for having an informed point of view

oh and i see that your just as informed thank you, flying an aircraft is a presition art and every pilot should be respected for gaining the right to fly an aircraft!!!!

Who in the world is filming this incident and from where????

Maybe from oneof the building you need to fly between to enter the approuch ...

Someone who actually makes sense.

that was a very interesting explanation, very educational.

pilot: my god, what a short runway!!!

copilot: but look how wide it is!

n1

Not for the faint hearted..

Keep your eye on the spot where you wanna land and kick those rudders baby!! (just dont snap it).

Also interesting, how he made it... I want to become a pilot and I'm very interested in planes and the job of the pilots.

thanks for the insight. I, too believe that he/she lucked out a bit. They spoiled the right wing in time for a decent touchdown, but should have gone around. Been in worse, though... 45-50kts at KCO MD-80...full deflection and FMT...everything but the lav sink and committed, never again

I too, have seen worse, especially at Kai Tak (there was one CAL B747 that actually touched down on RWY 13 at Kai Tak, whilst travelling sideways, the nose pointed out towards Victoria Harbour, at 45 degrees to the runway centreline!).

What happened in this instance (in the video) is that the pilot flying ("PF") failed to allow for the port drift caused by a starboard cross-wind during the turn. That's where he lost the plot, and he did not recognise his predicament, until he starts to roll the wings level, and finds himself well to the left of the centreline.

This sort of manoeuvring in any jet, but especially in a widebody, at such a low altitude is very bad practice, and would not be thought of as safe.

He made - in the end - what would have been felt as a fairly gentle touchdown (although the nose slews right after touchdown as the aircraft rolls out, 'weathervaning' into the cross wind) - to the passengers, it would have felt very unstable and worrying, especially just after touchdown.

The landing was technically illegal, as he lands short of the approved threshold. The touchdown zone (which is where the wheels are first supposed to touch the runway surface) is between 1000' and 1500' (300m to 500m) down the runway from the threshold. In this business, if you touchdown even at 900' on an Annual Line Check, you would be marked down, and debriefed post-flight at length about what you had done wrong!

The operational margins for pilots in the airline industry are very narrow and demanding, but it is one of the reasons which keeps air travel safe.

Basically, this pilot got away with this landing. But he escaped by the skin of his teeth. he should - by any measure - have missed the approach when he saw his predicament, gievn it away and gone around.

He was not on the centreline, he nearly scraped the left wing tip, he was destabilised (he didn't employ a normal rate of descent from decision height to touchdown either - another criteris that automatically demands an immediate missed approach), and he landed short of the touchdown surface....

If his skills were good, he wouldn't have gotten himself in this predicament in the first place!

A landing starts at the top of descent...the softnes of the touchdown is not the way we judge the quality of a landing, in this business. If you screw up the approach then - no matter how soft the touchdown - you have made a mes of the landing.

Because, by the philosophy prevailing in our business, if you screw up the approach then you only arrive at the flare by the Grace of God. Not by skill.

All I can say in addition to your remarks is that we can all thenk God that this Airport has a new approuch and you don't have to come in dodging buildings and looking for special markers anymore . As you know every approuch to Kai Tak is a special problem , and you never get used to it ... Hope the new conditions are more favorable ...

Thanks for the explanation. The beautiful city of Hong Kong had the most trecherous airport in the world. The planes would fly right next to the sky scrappers on landing. I think developers finally moved it to a safer location over the bay.

Ever see the video of a Boeing 737 executing a 360 roll? I'm have no aviation experience, but he video from the 70s looked awesome. The narrator said the pilot was a well known and daring test aviator. It has never been done before, and the pilot made the plane look like a small jet.
As a passenger, the clip gave me comfort the boeing series, just knowing that plane could handed a twisting roll!

The Hong Kong airport was indeed moved, to a location just off the north coast of nearby Lantau Island, with two runways now oriented 25/07 (i.e. 255 and 075 degrees magnetic) L(eft)

is it true you were smoking in the plane?

didnt.

well thats actually a normal landing in those conditions. If there are crosswinds u have do come in at an angle or else the plane will tip over.

Good piloting , and there had to be a reason for it

.

kiss my ass

There was reducing shear on this approach (I rememebr the incident clearly, as I was already living and working in Hong Kong a an airline pilot on the 747-400 at the time).

But as any airline pilot knows, if you misjudge the run to final this badly (which is indeed what happened here), you have a duty to miss the appraoch and go around.

If you get severe windshear, especially on short final, then you also miss the approach and go around.

This chap did neither. So, it was not a good approach, or a good landing, and was a display of poor judgment.

It was also not a display of good piloting skills. If this chap's piloting skills had been good, he wouldn't have drifted wide in the turn in the first place.

And, yes, I have landed the 747-400 at Kai Tak in identical 9and worse) wind conditions hundreds of times...

wind shear isn't a huge problem. However - and this is extremely important for actually being able to steer the balloon somewhere - the wind (generally) is in a different direction every 10..20 feet or so. I remember the time I was in the basket and there was NO wind within +/- 50 feet, we were running out of propane, and we were directly over train tracks. BTW: trains don't stop for downed balloons.

The only way this "cowboy pilot" can defend that landing is if he was low on fuel, but I don't think that was the case. I've seen many wierd approaches to Kai Tak, but this one beats them all! A "go-around" seems in order from my point of view.

BTW: This was a cargo plane, the pilot "only" put the crew at risk.

and its why he is landing on an aircraft carrier..

WTF? You think thats an aircraft carrier?! Wach again mr.!

Ok, Lets be a little bit logical. There isnt an aircraft carrier in the world CLOSE to beg enough to let a big plane like that land on it. Fighter jets need a cable to stop them from going off the edge. No cable is gonna stop a plane like that without ripping it to shreds.
That guy is simply landing on an airstrip NEXT TO WATER. And was obviousely WAY off on the approach.

u a pilot?

You are right, there wasnt really much wind, I didnt even see that wind sock the first time around, and yes actually I am pretty much totally clueless about commercial aviation. So really, just thanks for the info Jabba, I didnt know about pretty much everything you told us. But still Good show :-P

the guy missed the runway...he landed short of the runway threshold...the solid white line designating the begining of the landind surface.

Yea.. there's NO WAY that there could have been anything wrong with the plane right? Because not only do you know everything about planes, but you can also tell whats wrong with a plane just by looking at it in this video because you are an airplane god... and yes.. i'm being sarcastic.

In all seriousness though, if there was nothing wrong with that plane then Jabba would be correct in saying that that was some bad piloting. But I dunno, something just tells me that something was wrong with that plane.

There was nothing wrong with the aircraft in this video, so Jabb was very close to the truth.

I live and work in Hong Kong as an airline pilot myself, on the same type of aircraft as in this video, and I was at home the day of this incident. It was later written up and discussed in industry journals, and has become an object lesson in 'what not to do' with a de-stabilised approach in reducing wind shear.

It was not a good approach or landing, and the piloit in question would have been very red-faced.

first of all..if you watch the video hes landing on an aircraft carrier..and 2nd.. a 747, is a huge plane..not only does it take a long runway to take off..but to land also..but what that pliot did is called a side slip..slows the plane down very fast for landing on a short runway with a plane that size...and not only is a sideslip very difficult, with most planes....but try doing it in a plane that size

your all wrong buddy, this is the infamous "checkerboard" approach into Hong Kong's Kai Tak airport, not an aircraft carrier. belive it or not this is the typical approach into Kai Tak...

1. Wind sock shows under 10 knots of wind.
2. Port side engine almost hits the ground.
3. If Quantas pilots want to land 747s in 80 knots of crosswind, I'm finding another carrier.

learn to spell Qantas doppy, and if you think you can find a better airline than Qantas then fly with them GOOD LUCK

If you have nothing intelligent to add shut it.....the pilot was obviously not performing an ILS landing into hong kong harbour HKB as it\'s no possible it has IGS and why would he use ILS in near perfect day light conditions. The Hong Kong approach is often this exact same way as the cross harbour wind from the east can make a normal approach too risky.....In a qualified pilots opinion that was an excellant landing. And do the world a favour stop reading books you dont understand?

Hong Kong Kai Tak Airport is one of the most dangerous airport in the world, as most of the pilot need to land manually. Like the other said, a 90 degree turn before the plane land and the distance is minimal. My pilot friend comment that it is the most challenging airport to land because of the sea, and that's why make the airport landing safe when every pilot pay special attention. However, these will not happen again after the new International Airport in Chek Lap Kok. I'm sorry that you guys miss this wonderful moment but only can review in this video.

Runway 13 at Kai Tak (the one in use on this video) didn't have an ILS but an IGS at the checkerboard on the hill side. The turn and landing were performed purely visually :-)

A LOT OF AIRPORTS SUFFER FROM COMMON CROSSWIND PROBLEM...
IN THIS SPECIFIC VID THERE WAS PROBABLY HIGH WIND... GR8 EFFORT TO KEEP HIS CRAB ON...
U COULD SEE THE A/C

oops... didnt see i woz @ caps... soorry ;)

Obviously you've never flown an Aircraft Captain or you would know that, that was a brilliant piece of flying involving a sideways slip often refered to as the crab.... you biff

That's what I call skilled piloting! Anyone know what happened?

wind happened

there are many videos of this kind of landing on flightlevel 350.com

its not a cross wind landing its a crab landing(i.e. cos it looks like a crapb walkin!!!)

crosswind landing...

apparently pilots drift also

i watch something like this on the discovery channel once(but your man did it in a cessna or like wise). pilots ususal do this either for cross winds or when they cannot power down the throttle due to technical diffficulties. this would happen on some flights, 1in about every 1 million, but its due(i think if i remember right" the electrical current not reaching far enough and air brakes wont work upon landing

yeah there was probably a reason he had to come in at that angle, but man he sure did straiten it up and put her down relatively easy, I say good show!

That´s why they closed Kai Tak: it was a very dangerous and difficult airport to perform landings, so they constructed another airport.

As I say eleswhere in this BBS, this incident is infamous in the airline industry, and is much discussed as an object lesson in how NOT to operate the B744, and how NOT to fly the IGS at Kai Tak.

The only reason he had for this appalling mess of an approach was that he cocked it up.

Just bad aircraft handling, pure and simple - and he would not have been proud of it.

You are right, I see now how the wind sock was hardley even moving, the guy had no real reason to come in like that, exept his own incompetence, from what I can see.

only reason for this type of landing is when the breaks malfunction somehow and this is how to slow down the plane...

the reason for this landing is to slow down the speed if the breaks somehow malfunction...

now my msg appeard twice... didn't appear the first time...:)

The brakes don't operate until the undercarriage is on the ground....in mid-air, the brakes could not slow you down at all!

And if you disagree with me, then please tell me how? LOL

Approach speed in the B744 is - like most other big jets - Vref 10 kts half the head wind component (in a strong or gusty wind conditions), up to a maximum of Vref 20.

Slow down? What are you talking about...? Slow down enough, my son, and you'll fall out of the sky!

By the time you are established on final, with landing checks complete (which should be by the outer marker and no later - about 1500' altitude or 4.3 miles to touchdown), you should neither be speeding up nor slowing down. You should have what is called in the industry a "stabilised approach." More accidents are caused on landing by de-stabilised approaches than by any other factor.

This was a screwed up approach, I'm afraid. At the beginning of this video clip, the aircraft is about 400' to 500' ASL (Kai Tak elevation was 15' ASL), and he has drifted wide on the IGS turn to final for RWY 13 (at the old and now closed Kai Tak aiport, in Hong Kong).

Drifting wide on this turn usually resulted in a natural tendency to remain high, because the surrounding terrain wide of the turn 'corridor' gave the false impression that you were getting low.

The pilot concentrates on the fact that he is way left initially, and then - as he heads back towards the runway centreline - realises that he is high. He chops the thrust, pushes the nose down, and gains speed.

There was reducing wind shear, and this helped increase the steepness of his approach. As he nears the ground, he realises his sink rate is way too high (I'll betcha the GPWS 'sink rate' warning was going off like mad!), and he realises once again, that he has over-corrected.

A huge handful of thrust (watch the hot air trail from the engine exhaust increase near touch down), an almight great haul back on the control column, as he kicks the aircraft straight and rolls the left wing down so low, he comes perilously close to scraping both a wingtip and an engine pod.

And he touches down about 100' SHORT of the official runway threshold (the touchdwon zone is defined as being between 1000' and 1500' down the runway).

Basically - whew!

The pilot got away with this approach, but he was lucky.

VERY lucky.

a brief flying lesson for all of us kooks... he heh

It does if you give it 30 odd seconds

Had the crew of this airplane been on their Annual Line Check, they would have (or ought to have) failed the check.

There are any number of reasons for this (excessive rate of descent in the final approach phase, not landing in the touchdown zone, not landing on the runway itself, excessive manoeuvring and abnormal attitudes below 500 feet, dangerous flying, poor judgment...I could go on, but I won't).

The wind sock (which shows in the inital phases of this video, on the RHS of the runway) shows a surface wind of about 15 knots, most (although not all of it) a cross-wind. The recommended maximum cross-wind component for the B-747-400 is 30 knots (26 knots for the autoland...and this was NOT an autoland, as autolands were not approved on RWY 13 at Kai Tak), so the sock shows that the wind at the surface was not particularly troublesome.

Probably the wind at 500' ASL was stronger than this, but such was typical for southerly winds at Kai Tak, and the ATIS (Automated Terminal Information Service) would always carry the wrning: "Caution - port drift on final" to advise incoming pilots of the problem they would face during the final phases of this approach.

When there were southerly winds on RWyY13 at Kai Tak, it was traditional for them to die down dramatically near the ground. Which may sound wonderful, but could be dangerous, because the wind reduction could be so severe and rapid as to create low level wind shear ("LLWS").

Indeed, even old hands could get caught out.

Early on in my days flying for an airline out of Hong Kong, I was a First Officer on the Lockheed L-1011 TriStar, and was on my Annual Line Check ("ALC"). The ALC called for me to operate two sectors: HKG-TPE and TPE-HKG.

The TriStar was notoriously hard to land really smoothly (due its rather rigid main gear), and no-one was more surprised than I, when I 'greased' the landing in Taipei, to the extent that the first indication we had that we were on the ground was the auto ground spoilers ("AGS") deploying - couldn't even feel the wheels touch!

All we heard in the cockpit was the "click - click' of the microswitches as the AGS handle rotated back....

Feeling rather pleased with myself (and with the plaudits of the check

watever if its hangin limpp or not it could also be a downward siral wid directed at the runway thusly it would hang limp cos it is being blown down

WTF does your father have anything to do with this??

The above may qualify as the least intelligent, and the most undeducated posting on this BBS.

Total, unadulterated, complete and utter nonsense.