9/11 Mysteries - Freefall

just because we don't have all of the answers, that doesn't mean we can't ask the questions.

I'd say that not having all the answers is a fantastic reason to ask questiuons, but deciding which questions to ask is a lot harder than asking questions.

1) It was Thermate, the US Army's special blend of thermite. There is evidence of thermate in the dust.
2) Shape charges
3) The buildings were wired by individuals known only to those who hired them. They wired the building by claiming that they were upgrading the building for high-speed internet.
4) the button was pressed from the bomb-resistant 23rd floor of WTC7. That's why that whole building had to go too. There was too much attention on the place, they could never have gotten the equppment out unnoticed.
5) The individual who ordered the shoot-down was likely a NORAD official who realized that the "drills" were a ruse.
6) 2 Missiles (possibly cruise) were used at the Pentagon.

you realize thermite is literally two metals.
no "special" blend.

it is powered aluminium (aluminium being the main comopnant of a boeing 767) and iron oxide (which is rust).

i dont know where you are getting your "facts" but they dont add up.

also, which group, lab, hobo did you have analyze twin tower dust??? are you serious??

i would like to see the sources that did the research on these topics... seriously get back to me on that.

If you and a third ingredient, sulphur, to therm-I-te it becomes Therm-A-te.

Watch and be wrong.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-873864401158950998

I mean "thermAte". ThermAte is the US Army's special blend of thermIte. It includes sulphur which lowers the melting point of steel. Your mom did the analysis and, no, you would not like to see my sources, you would like to continue believing government lies but here is one of *my* many, many sources:

www . ae911truth . org

Explain a few things for me smart guy.

ok?

1. Why after 2 months after the collapse was there still fires burning? Over 1100 degrees? Lemme guess fuel?
2. How did the bldgs, BOTH bldgs fall in under 11 seconds? No resistance? Hmm..
3.How come all three bldgs did somethign no other bldg has ever done before? They all fell in on themselves. Isnt that kind of odd? Fuck thermite and fuck bush and all that. Anser these questions? They wont be able to be answered. They just cant be answered with lies. Truth spells it out clearly. So like you said to the other guy. Seriously..get back to me on that.

Thermate does not explode: It burns.

why would they do this?

a country in fear will agree to spend billions on warfare to protect themselves from a perceived threat, real or imagined.

1. They are pure evil
2. Finish Bush 41s war in Iraq
3. Convert america to a fascist dictatorship with the "patriot" act
4. Complete the Nazi agenda that Bush41's father (Prescott Bush) attempted to push through in the 30s
5. Make lots of money
6. Scare stupid americans into giving up all their rights.

for the hundreth time they dont make ANY money.

I agrew with you yo. They will all shut up once the Berlin wall gets finished, i mean the wall separating us from mexico, then canada, then the ocean. i bet you all liek the new "ID card" that you must carry. The new Id, im sure you have heard about it on CNN. by 2014, you cannot enter a fed bldg, or leave the country without this card...hmm...wonder why?

There were no traces of thermite other wise the news would of had a field day and it would have been all over the news.

The media will say what it is told to say. You are the dumbass because you're waiting for someone to hand you the truth instead of going to look for it. The only thing you get for free is lies, trouble and more lies.

unless the news is in on it as well. Not literally. They only report waht is given to them guys.

i dont know much about al this stuff, can some1 tel me what happened to the 3rd building and why the guy said to pull it and how they did it so quickly and easily

Google "Loose change". Watch the video.

That feat incorperated the most advanced weaponry ever used. From low frequency lasers from sattallites ,that can turn concrete into dust, to advanced air/space craft using the same laser and time warping speed. to coventional explosives. The jet fuel was mainly for a smoke screen, no pun intended.

Free fall speed isnt that proof enough? Next time someone demos a building should they use demos or gas? cause that gas crap looked like it worked the same. Which is cheaper?

President George Bush
Mayor Gulliani

are both MURDERERS

Are you an idiot?

You are either a 12 year old with no brains or just another stupid Bush Basher.

People bash bush because he's such a great guy? He's pure evil but you can't tell because you are pure stupidity.

shut the fuck up you demoncrat.

if it wasnt planned or planted with explosives how isit supposed to fall then??? on its side?

its all the backstabing bastasted who want to blame Muslims and create a negitive image. and probably need a reason to bombard other countries n kill innocent , your killing people in the name of justice n crap , all you want is oil .,,,,,,,, you selfish bastards

it was all preplaned son

always a so called expert to justify a horse shit story

I get the impression you lost no one in this tragedy or aren't American or just don't care one way or the other. I could give you the answers to your questions, but if you really want to know- you will do some research for yourself.

Guess why still arguing over is because we are still fighting the "SUPPOSED War On Terror".

the war on terror is the terror our own gov puts the feeble minded into. Im not one of them

for as we know a secret known by 2 is no secret

Why did it fall so fast? Answer that question. Email me back with your answer. i have to hear it.

You waste your time dude. 10,000 gallons of Cerosine cannot melt the STEEL. Plss learn more dude. You suxxed dude!!

It was not Kerosine, it was aviation jet fuel. It can melt steel, go buy some and try it yourself. Or just review the numerous studies on heat as related to metal stress. Don't just accept as fact the ravings of idiots with an axe to grind on the government.

Dude how do u expect the government to tell us the truthh. We still don't have logical explanation who kiled J.F. Kennedy and other things like the war on Iraq by telling us that there was Weapon of mass destruction. And a lot other secret things.

The government isn't that stupid to leave the U.S. in the dark about a terrorist attack that killed almost 4,000 people. Plus why the fuck would they want to do that??? Find me an answer to that one....which you won't.

improvised explosives...jet fuels burning point is much lower than steels melting point

jet fuel burns at 000 the metal melts at 6 do the math . also explain how 2 towers that were constucted with this in mind would fall so easily and also how in the hell are these the only 2 buildings of that magnitude to fall due to fire . cruze missles make a bright flash when they explode eye witnesses by the pentigon say they saw a what? bright flash . no one saw a fuckin jumbo jet and there was no pieces or markings on the building it self to say that there was a jumbo jet . explain what that means please . oh and dont forget about the no skid marks on the grass and how the light posts were intact but just toppled over ... in the wrong direction btw.

WTF???? Why do you want to believe that? Jesus Christ....STOP LYING TO YOURSELF YOU DUMBASS!!!!!!! And how the fuck do you know what they saw? There were pieces of the plane at the Pentagon. "cruze missles make a bright flash.....saw a what? bright flash." Do you even know how irrelavent and stupid that sounds?

There were several hundred witnesses to the jet hitting the pentagon and several hundred that viewed the wreckage immediately after. They have spoken but the media ignores them because the truth is not "news". The WTC were the only two to fall because they were the only two soaked in thousands of gallons of burning jet fuel. There is plenty of proof as to the truth, but you fanatics serve the terrorists with your uneducated, uninformed b.s.

There weren't "several hundred witnesses" for starters, and the witnesses contradict each other and the official story. Some of the witnesses SAW A SMALL JET-PLANE hit the Pentagon. Read about them in David Ray Griffith's book "The New Pearl Harbor".

The Twin Towers WEREN'T the only two buildings to fall, there were THREE suspicious collapses that day. WTC 1, 2,

Hold piece of steel strap over a camp fire until red. You can then bend it in half without much effort.

but not cold rolled construction steel. you are the reason the attack worked you imbecile. You are so stuck in your ideal that our gov is a good gov, that they got you right where they want you. So how do you think we became a superpower? By giving daisies and kisses to babies? NO. Black ops, killing, stealing, blackmail and fu*king murdering!!

Go to any high steel construction site and ask one of the workers what would happen if he steel was allowed to get overheated by way of a common fire. The answers you get will put an end to this conspiracy idiocy.

that would be intresting to even get through 1 cup . any way i think i will . that is all.

now there were steal workers that tell you specificly that that couldnt have happened given what was used to burn
look at a damn periodic table and show me evidence that proves your side and i will show you interview with people FIREFIGHTERS that were THERE steal workers that were THERE that saw first hand what was going on that all say this was a CONTROLlED demolition engineers physisyst whose job it is to know these things look at this and know that it was controlled oh and you could always you know look at footage of a normal demo op and this one comparativly see how you like how it looks

ARE YOU NUTS!!!!!????? How stupid are you to believe that 9/11was an inside job? MY GOD!!! A Boeing 747 airplane ran into the buildings; thats one of the biggest passenger planes we have.

explain tower 7 then?

I presently work in steel construction, but have also worked in high demolition. I know explosives. In the video, I didn't see any explosions. I did see compression blowing debris out and up. I won't waste my time on this subject any longer. All of you conspiracy people have your minds made up, as erronious as that is. If proof positive was laid out in front of you, you would then say that it was faked. Nothing anybody will say would change you minds. Why bother? You can continue living in your dream worlds instead of reality. Some people have those needs.

I doubt very much that you ever worked in high demolition. Those were explosions, they were recognisable as explosions, they sounded like explosions, and they destroyed those buildings in exactly the same way as controlled demolitions.

...building not floor by floor, easier, I think.

was really involved with JFK's assassination? Try to answer that.

fbi, CIA j edgar hoover numbnuts. You dont rub elbows and be nice to the cubans. If you do..You get book suppositoried, and grassy knolled

"And who was really involved with JFK's assassination?"

George Herbert Walker Bush. The M.O. matches 9/11.

The JFK assassination is so irrelavent to 9/11and it was never determined who shot him.

Evidently, These "What We Know" people would rather engage in sedition and treason than reason.

Ask any cupola foundry man what happens with O2, fuel and heat.

Only in America do worms grow in the absence of common sense.

. . .1)Stand up straight after softening (not melting) your bones.

2)Drop a house on your head.

3)You will pancake.

Questions?

Very big difference there. Not your bones or houses being dropped on little you.

show me a suitcase from the planes! where? ALL of them burned? COMEON!!! So have you seen the hundreds of hours of footage out there that show you what a bldg looks like when it gets hit by a plane? It doesnt collapse all perfect on itself douchbag. It falls apart in pieces, and there isnt as much dust. IT WAS INSIDE JOB Scerpico. Prove me wrong. Try.

Look it up.

How would thermite be planted into an already constructed building? Oh, I see. ALL buildings must have explosives planted in them so that the government can crash airplanes into them. That would be a neat trick. What a bunch of kooks.

with you, and aslo where did all the debris go? why was it moved so fast from the scene? to what only can be described as a secret location? Them building would not be raised to the GROUND without at least twisting out of shape and maybe falling on buildings either side. in all the videos i have seen they fell straight down. Looks suspicious to me too and i DONT have a degree in Engineering.

was supported by the outside steel frame lattices all around the building with a stronger inner core. Like a hollow tube with a beam in the middle. The lattices probably funneled the force toward the middle and crushed the structure there. The latticework also would have stabilized the collapse because they would have been strong until the force of the falling debris effected them. The path of least resistance would have been straight down, and neither of the main structures would have had the strength to deviate that.

Hope like hell I don't get to employ you on any job. You just don't have the skills required

The steel was collected and recycled by order of the Mayor.

I find it very interesting that the official investigation did not start until after everything was cleaned up.

Plus they spent $11 million on the investigation. Compare that to the $30 million spent to investigate Bill Clinton's BJ.

80% of the steel was recycled by the city. It's not that they didn't want an investigation they relied on computer programs to heavily . The fire investigators and FEMA didn't hold the authority to preserve the scene for an investigation, so they only got a few pieces to study.

So what? This country STILL isnt even over the pain and suffering that happened on that day. there are still more important things to take care of first. And my dad has a 6 year degree of Mechanical Engineering (graduated at the top of his class), has worked for Dupont for so many years, got job offers to work on classified projects, and knows for a FACT that 9/11 was NOT an inside job.

are fags. The proof is in front of you. Bush loves morons liek you and your paper smart douschbag dad. You follow right along with what you see, not what you think. Fuc*ink morons. Please cut off your nuts now, so you dont have anykids...well i guess you cant have kids in your boyfriends ass!

if you watch the video in the context of that quote, i'm pretty certain it's obvious what he's talking about. the building is destroying itself and falling to pieces before the debris even has a chance to rest on top of itself. essentially, it makes the argument that the debris from the building compounded on itself, leading to it's collapse, all the more silly. just because you want to pick out a quote that wasn't worded "scientifically" enough for you, that doesn't mean it's credibility is completely destroyed.

How did a 100 story bldg fall in under 15 seconds? How? Oh, weak metal caused the bldg to fall faster tha ANY other blg, HALF of its size to fall? i have seen footage of 60 story blgs, due to earthquakes, fall in over 45 seconds, cuz they are all over the palce, all over themselves. Pieces falling in and out. And that whole meatl sealing shit that keeps it all in line so it fell on itself makes me laugh.

HOW THE FUCK WOULD THEY KNOW!!!!?????

Japan is the most echnologicly advanced country in the world, sorry to burst your bubble there pal. and if you could screw up on that im sure you can screw up anything you attempt to say to me

damn typos...

there are better ways of starting a war than killing 2000 of your citizens and causing a recession.

"there are better ways of starting a war than killing 2000 of your citizens and causing a recession."

Perhaps, but "a war" is not wanted. "Endless war" was the goal. A minor recession would be worth years of profits generated by unending war.

Just shut the fuck up adrezi, do know how stupid you sound?

FUCK YOU YOU PIECE OF SHIT FORIEGNER!!!! You dont know shit!

If the government is responsible for this, why would they screw it up to the point where you, cranberry, the illustrious metacafe user, would find it obvious that they were responsible for bombing their own buildings; there are such more effective ways of starting a war than killing 2000 or so of your own citizens and burdening the economy of one of your largest cities. It's idiotic, and I don't care if the man graduated with a C average he's not dumb enough to commit mass murder in front of the entire world and let a user on the internet named cranberry unmask him for what he really is.

I bet what's happening is Bush is using the patriot act to spy on peoples computers and is systematically assasinating them for trying to get him in trouble.

where did cranberry go!!!! lol

It wasn't "obviously set up." It would be totally idiotic to act when nothing's been proven. Just more pointless conspiracy theories wasting everyone's time.

You sat infront of your computer arguing your point just then. Why don't you take action, and MAKE people take action, rather than typing on a computer?

Lil green men from outer space shot em down with alien weapns, see here is proof!
////////////D ------------- In your face!
( ))

Plenty of evidence of mystery powerdowns, strange workmen laying cable and drilling. Using heavy machinery. This was happening for two months before 9/11. Witnesses saw this. Look it up.

If you take the example of the Landmark building which only needed 190kg of demo-charges, then it would only take 560kg for each of the Twin Towers. Don't need old fashioned "det cord" either, this isn't the 1960s anymore. We can use remote detonators now. There were witnesses to mysterious powerdowns and workmen drilling holes, laying cables and using heavy machinery for weeks before 9/11. The bomb sniffer dogs were taken away one day as well. Read up on it,

You are clinging to the gov't story and making up facts that fit. There is no accounting for all that dust or the pools of molten steel in the basement.

Furthermore, Washington DC is the most protected airspace in the worldl. A lumbering passenger jet that has been off it's route for 45 minutes cannot sneak up on the Pentagon.

All the French are good for is surrendering. and I do know what I am talking about

remember Napoleon? French Guy, conquered half the world? See the French fought plenty of wars and now they realize it's dumb so they stopped for now.

why do you have to put down the French?
i love french toast and french fries

"Our government can't get simple health care down. Do you really think they could pull something like this off."

The US could provide health care for all --IF IT WANTED TO. To do so, however, would cost money and benefit people. The US has no interest in that.

War earns money and hurts people. That is much more consistent with the true goals of the US. It's that simple.

----------------
"Even if it was a conspiracy what are a bunch of computer nerds and book authors going to do about it?"

Knowing the truth is it's own reward.

CIA

No they cant. it would cost sooo much damn money.

There is something very fishy about the government retaining and destroying all the evidence from the wreck of the buildings.

didn't hid or destroy anything, Fire experts didn't have the Authority to preserve the site, the City of New York decided to recycle the steel in new jersey

suposably dead from a heart attack

ARE YOU NUTS!!!!!????? How stupid are you to believe that 9/11was an inside job? MY GOD!!! And we cant find the little fucker cause hes hiding in mountains that we dont know much about.

1. Ever been unprepared?
2. Who knows if he made a mistake or not? Why does he need to know architecture? Have you ever gotten extremely lucky?
3. Osama has handed off his terrorists to some other guy because Osama is either dead, dying or just really old.
Answer questions the questions in 1 and 2 and back up your point better.

the towers have back up power for key systems. securities one of them...

What can I say? Stuff happens. What about the security GUARDS? you know the people in the light blue shirts, they look like police officers? And trust me it would have taken quite some time to rig up any sort of explosives in the towers and keep it secret. Where would they put them anyway? The floors are concrete, they would need a jackhammer to get through it and I think someone would notice a jackhammer. Plus they'd need time to cover it up. As in replacing the floor. 36 hours is too short of a time. Someone would have noticed them

The WTC had back up generators that will provide security functions power...+ there are Secruity Guards...no way in hell are they gona blindly stand around while a jack hammer is going off a few floors above them...

and certain stairwells arent accessible unless you haev either the key or warrants. So whata 9.00 hr rent a cop gunna do about the sound of a jack hammer?

I heard the towers were insured against terrorist attacks 6 months before the attack

Your insane.

WTC 7's collapse was announced on the BBC several minutes before it actually happened. While the reporter is recanting a press release regarding the collapse of WTC 7 the building standing completely intact is clearly visible over her shoulder.

well wouldnt you think it was obvious that it was going to fall??

"shock waves travel down the structure causing them to collapse before the upper floors reach them"

Are you the only one who can understand the "shockwave" principle as you so inanely express? Are you abandoning the offical "jet fuel" story? That version of events doesn't match yours.

I think You are making stuff up so you don't have to admit to yourself that you voted for a mass murderer.

GODDAMN!! All of you mothefuckers who believe that it was an inside job are going to burn in HELL!!

your not listing any so i dont see why your post was worth posting...

America itself has faced plenty of wars... but not over 10...let me list the ones off the top of my head...these wont be in time order though...
1-Revolutionary War
2-War of 1812
3-Civil war
4-Spanish American War
5-World War 1
6-World War 2
7-a midle eastern war i forget name of
8-War on Terror (current)

so far America as a country has been in only 8 wars...not even 10...so there ya go >Idiot< Whisperer.

So.........? We help out other countries and there has not been hundreds of war you fuckin idiot.

How about a communist dictatorship where if you say something like that they don't even bother to shot you, they just walk up to your door and bayonet you in the throat. Be glad you live in a country that gives you the freedom to bad mouth your own government without fearing for your life. What about the British? The French? The Chinese? The Spanish? How many wars have they been in? How many centuries of warfare have they gone trough? Australia was a prison colony until it's actual colonization for serious reasons and Canada doesn't have much trouble when it comes to diplomatic stress.

see

I posted twice and both were gone very quickly. Kinda frustrating really. Simply tried to offer a rational, common sense perspective to the contrary.

were complaining about the knowledge our government had prior to 911.
our government knew this was going to happen. In my opinion, rigged the buildings to make sure they collapsed and to make it appear like the airplanes were fully responsible.

Are u retarded? America is a peaceful place compared to the middle east, africa, mexico, and south asia. And it happens in other countries cause they senselessly kill each other daily, and we dont, we actually are smart.

America doesnt have 1 overall religon, there are all kinda of religons besides christianity in the US of A...
And whos gona e kind to some1 who punches them in the face? we arnt killing all muslims only the terrorists please get a grip on reality

Sounds like a personal problem. And thats too bad cause thats who your people are now, so DEAL with it u pussy.

They drilled while people were working. They explained the noises by saying that they were wiring for internet. After the drilling and wiring was done they had an unprecedented "security" evacuation and powerdown in the entire building the weekend before the "attack". Now we know why they turned off all the power.

I think the Jew that owned the building had something to do with it

1) Tenancy was at 33% and falling. They weren't attracting more tennants because they couldn't retrofit the buildings with high-speed internet.

2) the owners were under court orders to remove asbestos fireproofing at a cost of over $1 Billion. They were already losing money and couldn't pay for it.

3) they PNAC (google it) wanted to scare the average American and needed a well-known, believable terror target

4) Larry "Pull it" Silverstein saw an opportunity to turn $15 million into $7 billion in a couple of months. He couldn't resist.

It costs soo fuckin much to go to war that even if they did make money they would lose it soo fuckin fast you dumbass.

Wrong!!! they were the most popular buildings in the world!!

Why would the government blow up the towers WITH PEOPLE IN THEM?????????

They've done it before and they will do it again. You have a lot to learn about history. I suggest you stop watching the "news".

When have we killed our own people, hu,HUH!!!????

The government controls the media, and only tells us what they want us to see.

False flag operations are covert operations conducted by governments, corporations, or other organizations, which are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities. The name is derived from the military concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one's own. False flag operations are not limited to war and counter-insurgency operations, and have been used in peace-time; for example, during Italy's strategy of tension.

For example: lets blow up an american building so we can use it as an excuse to go to war....

But why the fuck would the US gov want to go to war? It costs so much fuckin money you stupid ass mothefucker.

If somebody in a hummer just gunned down your whole family on suspicion of being terrorists and not enough time to investigate them. Wouldn't you try to kill them? That kind of stuff happens there. Every time something like that happens the terrorists make sure others hear about it. It's not going to be terrorists the actual believers in this that are going to strap bombs on themselves and blow themselves up, it'll be people in the middle who have no way out. It's like if the terrorists are the Soviet Union and the people blowing themselves up are the Vietnamese, in that war we were really fighting the Soviet Union indirectly, kinda like this war.

No they didnt you fuckin idiot

The terrorists are trying to force out the American soldiers in order to create a power vacuum. Then they can install any government they want.

"The terrorists are trying to force out the American soldiers in order to create a power vacuum. Then they can install any government they want"

You're stupid. The "terrorists" to whom you so casually refer are known as "citizens" in their own country. Should they want a government installed by a lying invader?

life!!!!

George W. Bush or G. W. Bush is the current President of the United States and was President at the time of the attacks. Bin Laden is a terrorist leader of Al-Qeida (Not sure if that is proper spelling or not) pronounced [Al Kyda] whose full name is Osama Bin Laden.

Americans just can't believe anything from anyone anymore. So they make up their conspiracy theories so they can think that they have beaten the government.

bingo!

closure is needed, the guilty should be brought to justice, even if it is the government , the president or people acting on their behalf.

This was wrong, and to bring people to justice, puts in place that we are ALL accountable for our actions.

Someone is proffiting from the deaths of others, and that cannot be allowed to happen for the sake of all people in the world.

not done by u so stop pointing fingers

"It was a safety system of the WTC. It always had explosives inside."

Stupidest thought yet.

Yep, hard to believe huh? Thats right. Would you work in a building full of explosives? Thats because they didnt tell anyone. Few people knew it, as the fireman did.

yes because the builders thought that it would be funny to blow up the buildings just for fun and kill thousands of innocent people. FUK U!!!

"Would you work in a building full of explosives? Thats because they didnt tell anyone. Few people knew it, as the fireman did. "

If the firemen knew the building was always full of explosives, why would they have gone inside? You are a disinformer.

how is a rainbow made?
how the hell does the posi-trac on a Plymoth work?
It just does

Why must you question the sanity of everyone who disagrees with the Gov't? Is that really the definition of "crazy"? You don't even see yourself doing it, do you?

Everytime the gov't says the world leader they want to bomg is "crazy" eat it right up, don't you?

You're crazy for letting those "people" play with your head.

I have to question the sanity of people who think the government would kill off 3000 people for no dmaned reason what so ever...im nto agreeing with the government im using common sense they are different things but they arrive at the same conclusion some how.... though the government takes longer to get there than my common sense...

Finally someone with a brain

I have to agree. Have you ever seen the inside of a building before they demo it? It's a bloody mess. The supporting columns have to be riddled with holes and packed with dynamite. Then, it has to be all connected with blasting cord or wire. I can't see how someone wouldn't see that. A 100 year old 10 story building would require about 400 pounds of dynamite. To do what they are suggesting would have taken so much more.

there were reports of people going inside carrying lots of wires and equipment, and also there was an evacuation where there was plenty of time for explosives to be placed. Lastly, there were no bomb sniffing dogs working from the time of the people carrying wires to the planes hitting the towers.

110 stories...... of explosives, it would take months to wire it, and it would be messy.

...its better to believe that, rather than admitting that the guy YOU voted for not only killed thousands at blink of an eye, he also killed (and is still killing) thousands of soldiers. In reality you can't blame him (Bush I mean), the majority of Americans are so thick it would be, in part, criminal, not to feed you with bullshit you seem to have to problem with...

I voted for the other guy, and I think the most tragic part of this is that even though both those buildings burned down and our soldiers are killed, it's still just a little more than a tenth of the people killed in Iraq, why is that?