Su-37 Extreme Manuevrability Demo

This is a thing lost on people that don't seem to understand it's not the speed of the move but the control of the move that matters in a dogfight. The pilot must never let the nose drop to regain airspeed..if they do, in the time it takes them to regain airspeed they are going to get targeted and shot down. The F-22 never drops is nose when doing slow speed manuevers. So, in some cases it's not as fast but it's always under control. So, the manuevers work better in real combat.

It's does not matter in the jet overshoots because the Sukhoi's can target when out of control without enough airspeed to control the nose of the jet. It's a foolish move to make in a dogfight because of the vertical fight. Well trained pilots understand this. When the F-22 does the corba it hangs it's nose showing full nose control which means it can target right away because the jet is fully undercontrol.

frankyspeaker,

We have talked about this before. The reason the F-22 performs the cobra slower is because the idea is to control the nose. Again, if you watch the Sukhoi do a quick cobra, their airspeed drops so fast the nose of the jet drops to regain airspeed. If you do that in a dogfight even fighting a jet without thrust vectoring that jet can pitch vertical roll and target the Sukhoi before it can regain fill regain it's airspeed.

SU engine
Depending on a maneuver to be performed, the nozzles can be deflected both synchronously and differentially. The biggest problem with the implementation of the TVC nozzle concept, that has still not be resolved by the Americans, was to provide the nozzle reversal joint with a seal strong enough to prevent outblast of the gases with a high temperatures

Hi shelldawv,
Trust me, the Russian gave the fatal blow to the Germans! Only wenn the Germans had to move their heavy equipment to the Eastern Front the allies took ground in europe! The Russians kicked
the Germans out of Russia and all other country's on their way to Berlin. The Russians stood at Hitlers door! The allies(read U.S)were
to cowardly to enter the streets of Berlin.
As always they only bombed Berlin.
Grtz,

Hi timeflex,
Because off the Sukhoi's abbility to manuever quicker the F-22 will indeed overshoot.
Only in LONG TERM banking the F-22 will have an edge.(PTWR) Not in SHORT TERM banking and fast directional changing.(airflow)
The new SU-35BM will have increased PTWR because off less weight(-20%)and new engines and 3-D TVC.
I can't wait to see it manuever!
Grtz,

Hi timeflex,
Both planes do the cobra, but the way is different. A F-22 has to rely more on it's power and TVC to perform a cobra.(to compensate)
The Sukhoi uses it's superiour airflow
to perform a cobra.
If a F-22 performs the cobra or bell as fast
as a sukhoi,it's airflow will break down to fast.
That's the reason a F-22 performs this move slower, so they can keep it in control with it's
massive thrust.
Grtz,

Hi Timeflex,
A cobra without TVC is possible with an aircraft that
has perfect symmetrical airflow over the wings. That's why the Sukhoi can perform this like no other
plane out there. No other plane can perform manuevers as quick as a Sukhoi.(only an aerobatics plane)
It's all in the frame.(aerodynamics)
The F-22 has a better PTWR, but that's all it has over the Sukhoi in terms off manuevering.
Grtz,

I respect the Russian airforce and their jet fighters but right now the F-22 is too advanced for anything they put in the air right now.

I understand that Su-27 can do a corba without vectoring. I also pointed out how it's a move that will likely get you shotdown if you are in a fight with a pilot that understands how to use the vertical in a dogfight. The reason the F-22 has a gun is because like the old saying goes it's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. But having said that, the F-22 likely will not need it.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to tell that air-to-air combat is only about short range. Neither that EF and F-22 are bad planes. But look, Russian air force uses AWACS and satellites too, as well as joint data network and long range missiles. It is all there. But this video called "extreme manuevrability demo". Why you are talking about AWACS, RDC etc? ;-)

How can you explain the fact that first cobra was made WITHOUT vectoring?

How can you explain the fact that all modern jets still have guns built in? What for?

Yeah shelldawv, I fully agree.

I try not to talk down to them and I try and respect the Russian jet's it's just that the air to air fighting of today has changed greatly. As you point out so well slow airspeed thrust vectoring moves are just airshow tricks to have fun with the crowd.


But, no matter how many times you tell many of the people on here these tricks the F-22 and the Russian thrust vectoring do don't really matter, they don't agree. What can one do?

(cont'd) or are flying in combat formation. They don't understand modern tactical air combat. They'd rather brag on Airshow tactics. Any smart and well trained pilot uses all tech. available to defeat the enemy (Long range detection, AWACS, ECM, GPS guidance, long range missiles,and numbers etc.) in these areas the US has the upperhand BY FAR.

Jumpsweet.. evry person that is talking about these maneuvers, don't understand the meaning of fighting at a distance due to technology. The days of the in-close dogfight went out the door when the AIM's came into the pict. In close is for 1 on 1, which doesn't happen when you fly with a wingman.