International
Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qmcOG-na4E
In several years of debating atheism and theism, I have made an observation. Ask any believer what would convince him he was mistaken and persuade him to leave his religion and become an atheist, and if you get a response, it will almost invariably be, "Nothing - I have faith in my god." Although such people may well exist, I personally have yet to meet a theist who would acknowledge even the possibility that his belief was in error. Many theists, by their own admission, structure their beliefs so that no evidence could possibly disprove them. In short, they are closed-minded, and have been taught to be closed-minded.
In light of this, it is ironic that atheists are often accused of being the closed-minded ones. Fundamentalist very frequently claim that we have hardened hearts, we are dogmatic and irrational, and that we reject God based on preconceived bias. Such claims result from psychological projection. Incapable of coping with the fact that there are some people who genuinely do not believe in their god, these theists simply deny that such people exist, and instead insist that everyone thinks the same way they do. Therefore, people who reach different conclusions than them must have some secret ulterior motive for not believing. This is truly ridiculous, but unfortunately, some people really believe it.
Thus, in the spirit of proving that the atheist's mind is not closed, I've assembled a list of what I would accept as proof that a given religion is true. Also included are things that I would accept as circumstantial evidence of a particular religion's truth and things that would not be acceptable to me as proof of anything. While I do not claim to speak for all atheists, I would confidently say that any religion that could produce one of the things from the first list would probably gain a great number of converts.
To be fair, I invite all theists to respond by preparing a list of things that they would accept as proof that atheism is true. If any theist prepares such a list please post it.
The first category deals with things that would absolutely convince me of the truth of a particular religion. If shown any of these, I would convert on the spot.
Verified, specific prophecies that could not have been contrived.
If the prophecy is vague, unclear or garbled (like Nostradamus' ramblings, for example). It must be detailed, specific and unambiguous in its prediction and wording.
If the prophecy is trivial, anyone could predict that it will be cold next winter, or that this drought/plague/flood will eventually subside. The prophecy must predict something surprising, unlikely or unique.
If the prophecy is obviously contrived for other reasons, No official seer or court astrologer ever predicted that the king he worked for would be a brutal, evil tyrant who would ruin the country.
If the prophecy is self-fulfilling; i.e., if the mere fact of the prophecy's existence could cause people to make it come true, The Jewish people returned to their homeland in Israel just as the Bible said they would, but this isn't a genuine prediction - they did it because the Bible said they would. The predicted event can't be one that people could stage.
If the prophecy predicts an event that already happened and the writing of the prophecy itself can't be shown to have preceded the event.
If the prophecy predicts an event that already happened and the happening of that event can't be verified by independent evidence. For example, Christian apologists claim that Jesus fulfilled many Old Testament prophecies, but the authors of the New Testament obviously had access to those prophecies also; what would have prevented them from writing their story to conform to them? The extra-biblical evidence for the existence of Jesus is so scanty that it is impossible to disprove such a proposal.
And finally, if the prophecy is the lone success among a thousand failures, anyone can throw prophecies against a wall until one sticks. The book or other source from which it comes must have at least a decently good record on other predictions.
These conditions, are reasonable, and are only what would be expected of a true prophet with a genuine gift.
Scientific knowledge in holy books that was not available at the time.
You've got some good points, and your argument is well thought-out. You need proof, and I could quote scripture to you all day, but since none of what's been postulated has convinced you so far, I'll just mention this... your proof is on its way. Please read the Book of Revelation. It's got some the specific predictions and prophecies you're looking for. Of course, I don't know when, exactly, they'll start happening. God's timing isn't anything like mine. But if you read Revelation and get familiar with it, you'll know them when they hit. Trust me, it's going to be SOME show.
By cinnamonbeach 1223692927 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down RemoveI love how you've gotten like ten billion million comments and video responses quoting scripture at you. xD
By fanficbug [Affiliate User] 1216344992 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down RemoveProof that god does not exist, that i would accept:
1. If any human can explain why the e=mc2
why the parabolic function and not linear gradiential.
2. If any human can explain biologically the self-conciensce, and how electrical signals become thoughts.
3. If any human can explaint to me in absolute vividness, and not just words, what was there before the universe?
Proverbs 23:9
9 Don't bother talking sense to fools; they'll only poke fun at your words.
Oh Lord How True Your Word Is!!
and God said Bless those who have not seen, yet Believe ;]
By tomasennis [Affiliate User] 1216342857 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down Remove"you do admit that it takes faith to believe in atheism just as much as it does to be a Christian, correct?"
Nope. Wrong, and just plain stupid.
"I don't have enough faith to be an atheists!!"
And apparently you don't have enough brains to learn what an atheist IS. :/
I'm a legally ordained minister myself so I make my own decisions & I don't have enough faith to be an atheists!!
By stryperized [Affiliate User] 1216338133 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down RemoveYou want a sign because you are evil and won't believe. But if you don't need a sign, then you are a blind sheep who just does what your preacher tells you!
By infernalhell666 [Affiliate User] 1216337961 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down RemoveLuke 11:29-30 (Contemporary English Version)
A Sign from God
29 As crowds were gathering around Jesus, he said: You people of today are evil! You keep looking for a sign from God. But what happened to Jonah is the only sign you will be given. 30 Just as Jonah was a sign to the people of Nineveh, the Son of Man will be a sign to the people of today.
Again Amen & Amen!
Matthew 12:39 (Contemporary English Version)
But Jesus replied:
You want a sign because you are evil and won't believe! But the only sign you will get is the sign of the prophet Jonah.
Amen & Amen!!!
you do admit that it takes faith to believe in atheism just as much as it does to be a Christian, correct?
By bearman09chea [Affiliate User] 1216336300 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down Removei admit that some things i believe may be wrong wth dude lol
By Anolaes [Affiliate User] 1216335513 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down RemoveIt was NOTHING more than Christian APOLOGETIC bullshit & Christian apologists who were "interviewed" & who were proselytizing their religous preconceptions. If I want to know all I can about Suddam's Iraq, You should not ask only the Ba'athist Party. UNLESS of course you are an idiot & President of the U.S.A.
HOORAH!!!
Reaoning being, there was not one secularist, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Agnostic, Atheist, Buddhist, or evolutionary/earth biologist educated & working on the discipline, which was interviewed. There was no juxtaposition. It was written for one reason & one reason only, TO SELL BOOKS. He made MILLIONS. He was a failed writer. His income EXPOLDED when he wrote this apologetic nonsense. Period
By IaintNoGood [Affiliate User] 1216332427 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down Removekate, prove to me how TCFC was an objective investigation or honest research. You can't.
WHY?
kate, I already read TCFC. I read it & used it when I myself was a Christian Apologist. As for it being "evidence" of someone who researched the existence of Christ, I gave provocative arguments as to how it was not an objective research, but a subjective validation.
As for the reasons WHY atheists & or agnostics discount the bible, it is BECAUSE they read & studied it. It is easy to discount the bible if you JUST READ IT. Cover to cover. None of this, start @ John, then Matthew, etc. BS
kate, it is one thing to offer modern day reporting as evidence that Michael Jackson existed. No one will argue that mainstream mass produced media is inaccurate in reporting the "existence" of someone. However, there are NO, NADA, NONE, ZIP, ZILCH, ZERO, records of Jesus existing by his mainstream contemporaries. Claiming they exist without citing sources, is a sad & pathetic attempt to validate yourself, not your argument.
Patiently waiting for contemporanious reports of Jesus' existence
lil. once again you offer nothing. You give me conspiracy theory as your rebuttal. Ergo, the CIA was involoved in the Bobby Kennedy assissination, the FBI was involved in the assassination of MLK. The mafia was hiding in the grassy knoll in TX. The Moon Landing was staged & Mariltn Monroe was killed by the Secret Service. Elvis, Joplin & Hendrix are living on a private island. And most importantly, 9/11 was a Government inside job.
How sad to live in your world.
:-(
Seriously
Well that was vague and didn't make sense. Oh wait, I guess your whole faith is like that!
By Japantiem [Affiliate User] 1216328399 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down Remove"God is so"
Before you go on spouting nonsense about what your imaginary god is like, you should first prove it exists. :/
"Honestly, if there's nothing there why are atheist so damned determined to prove it?"
Prove what? Atheists don't have to prove anything until somebody proves any gods exist. They've been trying to do that for thousands of years, with no success.
haha, that double blind hospital study actually happened.
The group people who knew they were being prayed for fared slightly worse than the other groups (suggested that it's because they figured they were going to die if they needed prayer)
The other groups (didn't know they were being prayed for and not prayed for at all) fared the same.
guess more studies need to be done.
go to The New York Times website and search "Prayer Study" it's the first non-sponsored link
Honestly, if there's nothing there why are atheist so damned determined to prove it?
By aquarianbabe [Affiliate User] 1216324387 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down Removesounds like poorly written science fiction. thanks for the nonsense. lol
By southyr6 [Affiliate User] 1216323451 Reply Spam [+0] Moderate Up Moderate Down RemoveWhen it comes to God's operation, the physical laws break down (because he's the creator). God is so massive and infinite that when He does things, it far exceeds the human imaginary grasp to a far greater degree. E=MC2 is just one of the physical pittance laws God formulated for our benefit. With God, matter can be created and destroyed completely as God exist within and without time.
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