Part 3: NEEDLES!

This explains why Rome's army degenerated so much; they could not keep Barbarians out of the city. Those warrior Romans could not fight any more. The city fell to Barbarians and that is how it finally and eventually fully collapsed. But before that full collapse Rome and its citizens was being pacified by Christianity; Christianity prepared it for weakness and degeneration. That is how the Visigoths got into the Empire and were later ordained as clergy.

I agree, it was the most jsut of any courts in the world during that time. However, that doesn't mean there wasn't corruption and bribery, no government the world has ever seen has been perfect and without any corruption. Christianity is what preserved the empire as long as it stood, it taught the unimportance of greed and money. Even the US government, the strongest country in the world and the first to adapt to modern democracy, has a great amount of bribery and corruption.

I recognise the various points you made which contributed to the fall of the empire. But you do not recognise that the thing that started the ball rolling was Christianity. What happens when a piece of fruit in a fruit salad starts to go off? Doesn't it contaminate the other fruits? Christianity was the poison, and it all those other reasons for the decline is only the decomposition from the poison.

Well, I'm going to start with your last statement, and I would liek you to know that I do not waste money just to feed myself false facts. Also, if you would care the read my previous comment you would see 7 of the many reasons why it actually fell. You aren't being specific on how Christianity could have possibly caused it, can you elaborate a little? Because, quite frankly, nothign you have said is making sense.

The major cause for the decline in the Roman Empire has nothing to do with morality. The Roman courts were the best in the entire world; they were fair and they were just. The Romans were tolerant of other religions. They were cruel and vicious to criminals because they couldn't deal with dissent. When Christianity out of its original soil it came with the lower orders: it came with corruption and it corrupted everything it came into contact with.

There is no other cause for the fall or decline of the Roman Empire. The only logical and possible conclusion is Christianity. Christianity is to blame for the degeneration of cultures. Not just Rome, but Greece, Britain, France, Spain. Sure, Christianity brought art and music but it also brought a terrible burden. Read The Fall of the Roman Empire by Gibbons. It is an amazing book. Christianity, decadence, lead, monetary trouble, and military problems all eventually led to its final collapse.

Effects of Christianity on the Roman Empire:
Increase in pacifists(Good and Bad)
More public spending on Churches(Bad, less for other Government needs)
Increase in Morals and Values (Good, one of the most major causes of its collapse was a the lack of morals and values. This is thought to have preserved the Roman Empire for several decades at least).

Other causes include: decline of morals, health, increased corruption of leaders, unemployment, inflation, military cost, lack of tech.

Using the Roman translation of the Roman empire does not make you look any smarter, I am sorry to tell you. Anyways, it was legalized by an emporer. However, you are quite wrong when you blame the fall of the Roman Empire on it, and I am sorry that you simplay cannot understand this. However, I persist that it is undeniable that there were many causes for the fall of the Roman Empire, and no textbook or other scholarly text would agree that Christianity played even a minor role in its fall.

It is not a fact because it cannot be proven. Although it was tolerant towards Jews, the Roman Empire was upset because now there were to religions, Christianity and Judaism, that were spreading their beliefs in the Roman Empire. They eventually stopped critisizing it after one of the emperors was finally saved and thus it was allowed to spread in Rome. Rome was alread ystarting to fall before the rise of Christianity to all sorts of other internal and external factors as I keep saying.

It is a fact that Rome was corrupted by Christianity. It fell under the spell of Christian means and Christians ends. The nobility of Rome, the greatness of its courts, it's tolerance of religion, it's military strength was slowly being chocked from the inside out. Christianity poisoned Rome.

Well, as I said, not all barbarians were warriors, a barbarian is simply refers to a foreign person. These groups were much like our societies in the sense that they had mothes, they had children, they had rulers, they had warriors, they had religious leaders. The warriors were not the same ones. Once again, though, they became clergy AFTER the fall of the empire, so Christians couldn't have caused it anyways. I'm guessing you didn't read my previous statement, I hope you shall read this one.

who gives a shit about wat u think

The Barbarians were warriors, yes. But in order for Christianity to attain mastery over them they had to embrace barbarian concepts. Those barbarians became the clergy. Wasn't Clovis one of these Barbarians? The fall of the Roman empire can be blamed on Christianity. The Roman empire was brought to shame by crafty, sneaking, invisible, anemic Christians.

Barbarians, first of all, were only one external cause, with numerous other external and internal causes. However, the barbarians that attacking were the warriors, not the same as those ordained, the clergy. Secondly, they were not ordained until AFTER the fall of the Roman Empire. Finally, I would like to point out for the 3rd time that NOT ALL ATHIESTS ARE COMMUNISTS! Very few are! Just as very few Christians actually support violence and conquering others like you imply using barbarians.

Christianity did destroy Rome; it appropriated the Rights of the Imperium Romanum, by corrupting it. "Christianity was the vampire of the imperium Romanum,-- overnight it destroyed the vast achievement of the Romans..." Friedrich Nietzsche.

Of course. The Barbarians were able to get in on the act and take down the empire, when those same barbarians were ordaiend as bishops with the power of the church. The fall of Rome did coincide with the introduction of Christianity. Communism is not atheism, as I keep constantly pointing out to Christians.

We refers to the majority of the human race, not Christians. The dark ages was caused by the fall of the Roman Empire to Barbarians, not Christianity. Nor was the fall of Rome caused by Christianity, but by various external and internal factors. However, I do feel that Communism is the fruit of those same Athiest beliefs, with of course an exageration of it and tge help of a less fortunate person who has been turned cruel by the many unfortunate events happening around them.

we consider "good"? Exactly my point. The Church tried to make people moral because they believed in what they considered to be "good" but the means to do this was immoral. 800 years called the Dark Ages was the fruits of the Christian church. Communism states that religion is a tool used by priests to tyrannize and enslave the masses. That I believe is true. But it isn't an argument in favour of communism. Thus atheists do no have to be communists, though they might share a similarity.

I would like to point out that while you keep hammering Christianity, this is the first time that I have at all attacked Athiests. And I would like to point out that most Athiests are, of course, not Communist.

The Bible obviously has more than 10 laws in it. However, the Ten Commandments lay out 10 moral codes that every person we consider "good" should live by. As long as you are mentioning how the Church was in the dark ages, let's mention the fact that it was not the rich landowner's who ruled society that went to Church. Although supposed Christians have done nasty things, let's go to the Communist 20th century. Communism is athiest, no religion allowed, and one of the worst governments ever.

I am not trying to be perfect, I am trying to do God's will to the best of my abilities. However, I do need God, and you do to; I pity you for not having God just as you pity me for having God. Also, I would like to bring up the point that you have these moral values without the Bible, yes, but is it not true that Western society's biggest historical influence was the Bible? Thus, assuming you are from a Western culture (Europe, the Americas, etc.) your morals are based on Biblical teachings.

The Ten Commandments? Which ones? Deuteronomy, or Exodus? A society cannot function on just 10 laws. These commandments were not meant for society but for a religious community made of shepherds and fishermen. Living according to morals is foolish and unwise. The Church tried to do this for 800 years and we call it the Dark Ages. The spread of righteousness is often an affront to rule with unrighteousness.

You can kill yourself trying to be perfect. It is such a strain to keep this up. Better to let go and flow with life rather than try to be perfect. Do you need the Bible to tell you not to hurt others? Of course not. You have not lost any moral compass; you have swapped it for a Biblical one, which is a result of you having been brainwashed. Do you need a God to tell you to love? Of course not. Again, the result of brainwashing.

Why wouldn't a person want to be perfect? Of course, perfection is impossible to achieve. Never-the-less, yes, I do base my morals on the teachings of the Bible. It says that I should not hurt others even though they hurt me. It says to love my God, my family, my friends, my enemies. It says to help others, treat others as you would have them treat you. It says that knowledge is worth more than gold. Just look at the ten commandments and tell me that living according to its morals is bad.

I know I am not perfect nor would I want to be, not by any Biblical standard, at any rate. The problem is that you are looking to the Bible for some sort of moral compass. We cannot exist alone by being guided by a moral compass. It is not desirable for mankind to be lead by the nose by ethics found in some ancient book. You have not lost your moral compass; you have simply swapped it for a Biblical interpretation, which is a result of brainwashing by priests, teachers and the like.

Indeed, it is sad that many people are that way and yet still claim to be doing it in the name of Christianity. This does not makes sense, because the Bible condemns such actions as these. However, you criticize Christians, yet you yourself are not perfect, no person is. Can you honestly say that I am any better or worse than you? Going to youtube and saying that other people are bad does nothing to help others. All it does is create a negative atmosphere and worsens things.