P4 - D'Souza Vs. Hitchens - Freedom Fest 2008

No I am answering your questions, and I have already told you the tenets, which you acknowledge that you subscribe to by refusing to answer that simple question. Afraid to admit you are not a free thinker, but a cookie cutter atheist indoctrinated in the state religion? And as far as showing that not only do atheists all believe the same tenets but that all the rest of those who reject God as well, shows further how it is nothing close to resembling free thinking, but willful ignorance.

You're attempting to change the topic. You're asserting that atheism is a religion. To prove that claim, you need to show that atheism has tenets or a doctrine; beyond a lack of belief in a god or gods.

Humanism, secularism, satanism, free-thinker-ism, are not atheism.

My personal beliefs about the universe are irrelevant to this discussion.

I won't reply further until you can provide some tenets of atheism. Youtube's comments section makes for a poor message board.

Also I am not Catholic so no sacraments. And your figures are way off. 80 percent of Americans believe in God, while 40 percent believe in evolution, but believing in God doesn't make one religious. It's much more than that. Before atheists removed God from government, school, and made abortion legal this country was much more decent. It's really gone downhill and I think even atheists admit that.

I had 500 words. I figured you know the part about not believing in God. So are you saying you don't believe in Big Bang, evolution, and don't support abortion, and pretty much think whatever you decide for yourself is morally sufficient. Whether you admit it, I probably just described virtually every atheist, agnostic, Satanist, humanist, etc. You claim to be free thinkers but you are only indoctrinated.

The moral code of the Satanist; do as thou wilt, goes for most of the "freethinkers".

Atheism is a lack of a belief so how could it possibly have a set of them?

None of the things you list require a lack of a god. Nor must an atheist believe them.

Christianity required a human sacrifice which is regularly reenacted with crackers and grape juice. They even call it a sacrament.

You say atheism has a moral code then you say it has no morals. Its either one or the other.

If sin is in surely it has more to do with the 90% of people who are religious then the 10% who arent.

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies"

Oh like Big Bang and particles-to-people evolution theories?


"usually involving devotional and ritual observances"

Ever met a liberal who doesn't love abortion? It's called human sacrifice and liberals cling to it as a sacrament.

"often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs"

Look around you. Sin is in.

If you want to be honest with yourself the definition of religion is: "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Atheism is a lack of belief in a god or gods. Atheism is as much a religion as NOT collecting stamps is a hobby.

Atheism is a religion according to the definition of religion, if you want to be intellectually honest with yourself.

It would be hell for the haughty to have to praise someone else, especially one who leaves their minute intellect in the dust.

D'Souza quotes Dennett saying basically if the bad guys of an ideology do bad things the ideology is still responsible. He says that despite this atheist won't take responsibility for the crimes of Stalin and others.

The problem is that it's a false comparison.
Atheism isn't an ideology; it has no doctrine. All it says is there is no god. It doesn't say there is no god therefore do this.

Marxism, communism, humanism, and religions, those are ideologies.

"Sounds like hell to me!" - Chris is brilliant. He makes me laugh every time with that one.

hitchens must love debating this guy, dinesh's arguments are such sport

D'Souza really just doesn't get the differentiation between fanatics drawing their fanaticism from the actual teachings of religion, and fanatics who happen to have a belief in common with a secular humanist.

Just like his god, no matter how hard he wishes it and how many logical back flips he preforms, stating that the mysticism and fanatic leader worship of the 20th century was secular values in practice, will never be true.

Have your READ the Turkish constitution?!?

It's a bloody shambles!

It's 173 articles, growing longer every year, most of which are of trivial importance, many of which state the obvious, and some of which contradict each other.

Article 5 defines the State's main purpose as "to provide the conditions required for the development of the individual's material and SPIRITUAL existence"

Some typically stupid articles include 49 ("Right and Duty to Work") and 64 ("Protection of Artists")

Turkey has a secular constitution

More Casuistry as usual from Mr.D'Souza. This guy is severely constipated.