Renee Fleming - Strauss Four Last Songs - Beim Schlafengehen

The Janowitz/Karajan is much better. I understand their ideas on line here, but it's a SONG. You need rubato and phrasing in a song. This is hardly a movement from a symphony which is exactly how it's being performed.....zzzzzz

past her prime here, this is HORRID. I love her normally, but no. no. no. no.

I'm listening to this after listening to Jessye Norman and I think Fleming seems to swallowed by the orchestra in comparison especially in the lower notes and the higher seems to almost blast in contrast.

But if such a basic (American?) English source as FreeDictionary is reliable,I used the word in its English denotation:"The spirit of the time;the spirit characteristic of an age or generation" (&related words:flavor,feel,spirit,smell, feeling,look,tone - the general atmosphere of a place or situation and the effect that it has on people;"the feel of the city excited him"; etc.)

I speak about 8 languages myself and I tend to mix them occasionally. But in principle, I have always been very wary of speaking of any definitely "correct" meaning or usage of any word, especially such a "flou" (as the French would say- in english roughly: "vague") one as "zeitgeist".But I am grateful for the correction.(Another case where English differs from other languages, is e.g the choice in the usage of sarcasm vs. irony etc.)

ok, in that case the American English usage of "zeitgeist" is different from its original European and German usage (frequently used by the roimantics). I am sorry for the erratic usage. "In German, the word has more layers of meaning than the English translation" says one source, so mistakes like this are possible, and I thought the word does not really have a very well-defined precise meaning in any language.

This isn't the correct usage of the word "zeitgeist" ...

and the instrumental interlude after Schlummer senken is like soft tears - total resignation - like the knowledge when a near one, who has been ill for long has finally, but not suprisingly, passed away (and the memories rush to your mind)

but it's not only that Marlene or Elizabeth lived in that era - there's a whole lotta more zeitgeist in the performance of Lili Marlene when it was sung by Dietrich than there is when sung by Lale Andersen who made it famous and to whose voice it is usually associated.

and because the "zeitgeist" fascinates me so much, please be patient and let me add a comment from another category - the zeitgeist in Marlene Dietrich's voice, like when she sings "Sag mir, wo die Gräber sind, Blumen blühn im Sommerwind" - the originally American song by Pete Seeger.

So - as I comment elsewhere - Norman is the record of these songs i'd keep if i had to give away 4of the 5 I own, and yet I said "Norman's voice is warm and full,and while a it's a great performance,these songs seem to desire a voice of the Schwarzkopf/Te Kanawa sound" - so there's no "perfect" rendition of these. Shwarzkopf certainly has zeitgeist in her voice,having lived in that era.

yep - comparing can be fun, but ranking S**ks .The best of my 5 records i own of these songs,could perhaps be Norman's and yet,as i comment elsewhere,it is not perfect - Norman's voice is warm and full,and while a it's a great performance,these songs seem to desire a voice of the Schwarzkopf/Te Kanawa sound.

Herodotus,I think the recording by Jessye Norman is fantastic & with great atmosphere, and yet, i think "zeitgeist" (i am not german either,and was not born at that epoch) is a very good point. The zeitgeist also makes old recordings so fascinating - but some new once sometimes have captured some of that as well.

this is also what makes these songs so fascinating. James Levine said that "Rosenkavalier is perhaps RStrauss' best opera, but most of the time the heart (or inside etc) the music of R Strauss is hollow." I agree with Levine, but these last songs make a wonderful exception.

i'm going to be honest. i do not like strauss very much at all. this however, is a beautiful piece of music, and she sings it incredibly well.