Phobos Cell Running for 29 Hours

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Cell Current Dry HHO Leakage Mars
HHO4gas
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    HHO4gas
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  • Added: 29-Oct-08

12.1V 8.7A 48s/500ml 36.4C 97.52F 5.94mmw 5.72 mmw adjusted for temperature

How to calculate the adjusted mmw.
Here is the Excel spreadsheet to make the calculations This is Version 2d.

http://www.4shared.com/file/68972768/c692b9f7/MMW_Calc_-_Volume_vs_Temp_version_2d.html

I may update this file from time to time so if you would like the latest version you can go to my 4share account and download any of the HHO files I have available at

http://www.4shared.com/u/zvmszps/94d1bc4f/Bob_Campbell.html




Here is how Mars explained it to me:

If you want to factor in the temp of the HHO into the MMW you need to measure the temp of the gas as it flows into the meter. The formula is:
V1/T1 = V2/T2
V = volume measured
T = temperature in degrees Kelvin
Measure the gas temp in Celsius (or Fahrenheit and convert to C)
To convert Celsius to Kelvin add 273 to the Celsius measurement. (If you want to be precise add 273.15)
Let's say you made 1000ml of HHO @ 38C (100F) using 166.7 watts (MMW=6.0)
Later you make 1000ml of HHO@ 20C (68F) using the same 166.7 watts (MMW=6.0)
Obviously gas expands when it is heated so you made more gas in the second example. To compare the two you need to convert them to the same temperature. Either convert them both to a standard temp (Faraday used 25C) or in this case we will convert the first example to 20C.
Plug in 1000 for V1, 38+273 for T1 and plug in 20+273 for T2. Now solve for V2 and get 942.1.
So converting the first example to 20C yields an MMW of 5.65.
Of coarse we have not considered the difference in water vapor.
I just looked this up last night in my wifes old chemistry book. If anyone knows a better way please PM me.
Mars

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Comments on

Phobos Cell Running for 29 Hours

12 Comments | Add Comment
  • I second this ...

    I second this notion. ;)

    Anyone else so we can bring this to order? LOL

    By cjpeaceful1 [Affiliate User] 1225484388 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • Hi Bob: As you now ...

    Hi Bob: As you now know it is important to check the HHO gas temp as it is being collected as close as possible to the collection jar. Your HHO gas was undoubtedly cooler by the time you measured it.
    Nice Vid, Mars

    By mars1952 [Affiliate User] 1225463695 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • You are so clever ...

    You are so clever and polite by starting the stopwatch as you begin your video.

    Now, why didn't I think of that?

    Everyone should follow your example!

    BoyntonStu

    By Boyntonstu [Affiliate User] 1225456681 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • its hard to say ... ...

    its hard to say ... I have seen guys claiming rediculous MMW ratings on their devices and then bragging about how you see the gas coming off it ... well, hate to tell you, but if you can see it, its either steam or electrolyte chemical vapors or both ... if it was pure HHO, you would not see it or smell it ... so a lot of 'em are measuring their steam output, not their HHO output ...

    By SmartScarecrow [Affiliate User] 1225260875 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • I like that idea of ...

    I like that idea of the excel sheet for all the data..I wonder how much lower would the MMW's be with the absence of steam..

    By jdcmusicman [Affiliate User] 1225258183 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • that being the case ...

    that being the case, we need to nag Mars into publishing what he thinks is good method ... would be nice if it was expressed in a formula that we could plug our volume, time, volts, amps and temp reading into ... that way nerds like me could just put their formula in the Excel sheet and start recording data ... but there is still that nagging problem of steam messing with the numbers ...

    By SmartScarecrow [Affiliate User] 1225256524 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • It was Mas1952 who ...

    It was Mas1952 who did the research and came up with this formula.

    But the standard balloon test makes sense. It would allow the water vapor to condense and the temperature would normalize to something close to 25 degrees Celsius, which is the reference temperature I hope we can agree on because Faraday used this as his reference.

    It would be a bit of work for day to day measurements, but for those who are claiming efficiency on a cell for sale it would be very credible data.
    Bob

    By HHO4gas [Affiliate User] 1225251991 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • very interesting ...

    very interesting yes we need to make a standard into MMW ,This HHO thing is burning all my brain cell to 100% efficiency .

    By najman100 [Affiliate User] 1225251726 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • I like your idea ...

    I like your idea about considering temperature as part of an efficiency evaluation ... it is a more important component that many realize ... hot gas and steam measure a lot bigger than cooled, dried, pure HHO ... although the currently popular MMW calculation is good, it has this one major flaw in that it does not consider the percentage of water vapor and heat ... NASA uses what they call a standard balloon test ... we may need to take a look at their method ...

    By SmartScarecrow [Affiliate User] 1225249278 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • Nice! Those are ...

    Nice! Those are great nembers for a converted brick.
    Mars

    By mars1952 [Affiliate User] 1225247028 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • Nice approach , ...

    Nice approach , great idea for getting a more accurate mmw.I wonder how much it would drop if you eliminated all the water vapor.We may be surprised to find out that our devices aint as efficient as we thought once heat and vapor are gone from the equation ..Just something to think about...Thanks for the info..

    By jdcmusicman [Affiliate User] 1225246861 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
  • Now we need to make ...

    Now we need to make this an hho testing standard. 5star

    By tjgame2 [Affiliate User] 1225245372 Reply Spam Moderate Up Moderate Down
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