Part 6 - Dinesh D'Souza/ Dan Barker Debates

Look, I'm not taking ANYTHING out of context, nor am I interpreting the scriptures, I'm actually QUOTING them so people can look them up for themselves. My moral radar, knowing R**e , infanticide, mutilation, theft, mass-murder, etc, are wrong, is, as with you, NOT from religion, though you may wrongly think it is (perhaps if it wasn't for the 10 commandments you'd be a murderer), especially since your God perpetuates those things by ordering them to be doen and at times MAKING soldiers do them.

No, I already acknowledged that the Bible CLAIMS him to be a god of love, and I already explained that that is negated by all his wicked acts and commands, i.e., stoning a child for being disobedient (Deut. 21) or a girl for there not being evidence of her virginity on her wedding night (Deut. 22)
No, it's not contradictory as he was a deist and believed in the existence of God, just not your god, and didn't want America to face the mess that England faced, due to its unity of Church and state.

I still am waiting for you to tell me how you know what evil is? How do you hold the Christian God with such contempt considering you have no moral basis to consider that God immoral.

Please don't use the bible to explain your answers either. I need your thoughts...not your opinion on the text or your interpretion of it (You don't represent theology anyways but athiesm).

And you will never see me downplay God's wrath either. The problem with you is you completely overlook Gods Love.

Thomas Jefferson, like I said before, had mixed feelings about Christianity. His legacy being "separation of church and state" and "inalienable rights bestowed on us by a Creator" (may appear contradictive lol).

1. Again Anti, your taking scriptures out of context and not considering the bible in its entiretly. If your not gonna be objective to it then you best leave it alone.
2. I'm beating a dead horse on this point.
3. Yeah were having a religious discussion with somebody who doesn't have the slightest clue what he/she is talking about. It's intelluactly embarassing for somebody to rip apart a book without giving a thorough analysis, diligent study, or represent the WHOLE book.

No, I didn't count the verses. It's been quantified by theologians. The god of the Bible shows his wrath for over 50% of it.

I'll admit, it is weird that Jefferson had those nice things to say about Jesus, especially since he compared the New Testament to a dunghill, and said he's found in orthodox Christianity not one redeeming feature.

How can he be the creator of evil, which he admits, and not BE evil and responsible for it? It makes no sense. And, yes, I know that according to the BIBLE (a ridiculous book), God is just and perfect.

However, here's more of his wickedness:

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open." - Hosea 13:16

Pro-life, my ass!

1. If the Bible was the standard, which it's NOT, then those evil deeds would indeed be good, as it's God that's doing them, e.i. Exodus 21:7-9, where Yahweh regulates the selling of daughters as sex-slaves.
2. There was no 1st time for there to be a thousandth, as I never said it did. My attack has purely been on the Bible-God, though there is no evidence for ANY god.
3. Of course this is a religious discussion, what else? Apologists are the greatest con artists on earth. Theology is a sham.

God, according to the bible, is NOT evil.

He creates it for a purpose, however. That is theology. God is not responsible for evil man is because man has the choice to do evil. Gods punishment is not evil, however. That is rightly deserved according to the bible.

For you to deny these principles is an indicator that you don't have any grasp on biblical principle. It's pretty sad.

1. How can you hold God to a standard that you don't even have a moral basis for?
2. For the 1000th time, God's nature is not an indicator of His existence or lack there of.
3. You seem to fail at theology. Your like a con artist who talks the talk and puts up a show but you have no experience or throrough knowledge. If you want to turn this commentary completely into a religious discussion. fine. But I feel your out of your field of expertise.

Antichrist your point is taken But it seems you know so much about the bible. You must be a scholar or something? I guess taking things in context or understanding the bible in its entirety has escaped your mind. It seems you have the bible figured out. I guess if I open a biology book I can pick and choose passages from it and show myself an expert as a biologist.

So basically studying isn't your thing.Just throwing some random scriptures out there trying to look intelligent.

I'm not redefining anything. God being the creator of evil, as he admits, makes him responsible for all evil acts on earth, especially those aforesaid ones in the Bible, since he's making men do those things.
As for judging God, you DON'T KNOW that he exists, so stop pretending. Even if a supreme being existed, to believe it actually inspired the Bible is utterly absurd. There is no need to curse or surrender your will or mind to any myth or superstition, people just choose to. It's SO sad.

You don't seem to understand the simple fact that other verses claiming Yahweh to be compassionate, does not negate his odious, blood-thirsty viciousness and inhumanity in other verses, so quoting benign verses doesn't help his character any. Does it matter that Stalin and Hitler claimed themselves to be "peace-loving"? Of course not. We judge based on actions. If I did you a kind favour and then beat the hell out of you or your loved one, or worse, would I be a kind person? Of course not.

2 Chronicles 30:9

If you return to the LORD, then your brothers and your children will be shown compassion by their captors and will come back to this land, for the LORD your God is gracious and compassionate. He will not turn his face from you if you return to him."

Jonah 4:2

I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity.

John 3:16

For God so LOVED the word, that He gave His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Psalm 145:8
The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.

Exodus 34:6

And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness,

If you want to redefine free will thats your thing. Yes we are commanded to obey, if we don't we will suffer. However we still have that CHOICE.

If you don't like it I can understand. Even I have had problems with this. But I know am man and not God. so who am I to judge God?

Not liking God is not gonna stop me from ackwowledging His existence. I may curse at Him, but at the end of the day I must surrender to His will.

"most of the Old Testament"

are you sure about that? Have you counted all the scriptures and determined the difference.

....................................
Thomas Jefferson

"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man."

"Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus."

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

(CONT #2)

Here, this one's got it ALL:

"Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.
See, I will stir up against them the Medes,
who do not care for silver
and have no delight in gold.
Their bows will strike down the young men;
they will have no mercy on infants
nor will they look with compassion on children." - Isaiah 13:15-18

(CONT)
No, God being the creator of evil makes him the cause of the evil in the world; hence, free-will is negated as we are merely his pawns, just like the soldiers of Zechariah 14:1-2 who he MADE ransack the homes and R**e the women.

I didn't overlook anything. The question for YOU is why do you THINK the god of the Bible is loving, merciful, etc, just b/c the Bible claims he is at times, while for most of the Old Testament he is a god of bigotry, nationalism, slavery, R**e , infanticide, cannibalism and mass-murder. There is NOTHING loving or gracious about those things, and that's why YOU choose to overlook THEM.
Jefferson was NOT a God-hater, he was a deist. It's dogma and the Bible-God that he hated, and rightly so.

How do you know hes only those things considering your ignoring other passages that suggest he's loving, merciful, gracious, compassionate...did you intentionally overlook them?

Don't even quote Thomas Jefferson. The man has pro religious qoutes as well as anti relgious quotes. For a God hater it's funny how he refers to human rights as God given.

Yes God created darkness. But theres a purpose for it. With free will comes the will to do evil. Satan and demons are part of this darkness.

He's ONLY a god of wrath, laws and punishment. That's the point. There IS no love, justice or mercy in him, and there is NO justifying those disgusting things, nor the many others.

"The Christian God is a being of terrific character - cruel, vindictive, capricious and unjust." - Thomas Jefferson

He's a wicked, pernicious deity, and even admits to being the SOURCE of evil:
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7

Your pulling a scripture out of the bible here or there and ignoring the rest..without considering context or the whole picture....

It seems you need to find fault with something that you don't have full grasp of.

Your half informed. God is also a God of wrath and laws and punishment.

Here's more for you:

"I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh in the siege and in the distress with which their enemies and those who seek their life will distress them." - Jeremiah 19:9

What's a god of love, justice and mercy doing making people eat each other and their children?